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40 Days and 40 Nights -or- I'm pro-abortion not pro-choice

Wed, 09/26/2007 - 12:14pm — Rob Richards
Well, the pro-lifers have descended upon the bastion of freedom, Planned Parenthood. According to their website, they will be there non-stop for the next 40 days. We'll see if they have the resolve to follow through with that, I'll be checking on them late at night.

There are many ideas for responses floating around in the ether and I like all of them. My favorites: People should contact Planned Parenthood and ask what kind of help they need during this time. People should also rally for counter protests or outrageous-over-the-top solidarity protests. One other idea I had this morning was launching a phone in to city hall reporting the violation of the Pedestrian Interference Ordinance. These anti-freedom radicals are putting chairs in the six foot zone of the sidewalk, and with the narrow sidewalks in that portion of town, they blatantly violating the law. This is the city's chance to prove to us that they didn't just pass it to target our houseless neighbors.

Comments

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 4:05pm — Merwyn Haskett

Good Idea, I'll give it a

Good Idea, I'll give it a go.

Abortion should be legal because what about fetus' that will develop genetic abnormalities? The poor child would live a very short life full of nothing but pain. The child would have mental retardation and probably not be aware of anything but the pain.

Abortion should be legal because sometimes the kids are born into terrible homes. They start out disadvantaged, their lives are nothing but misery, they're neglected, beaten, and when they grow up they become part of the viscious circle.

Come to think of it, abortion doesn't go far enough. All these people say they care about sparing the child from a potential future of agony, but they do nothing about the children who are in the situation. So what if the child's been born, if they're suffering from a debilitating genetic dysfunction they should be euthanized for their own peace. Same with kids who have it hard on the wrong side of the tracks. It will bring some relief to the parents and spare the child a lifetime of disappointment.

As long as there's no pictures it'll be the right thing to do.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 5:54pm — JstPlnOnry

Merwyn! That's What Makes You A Special Person!

You see special olympics kids and realize they're not burdens!  Some people see them and wonder how their parents kept them! Many moons ago, kids with downs syndrome, looked or acted differently or had special needs were institutionalized! Bing Crosby's son was & is currently institutionalized here locally because he was mentally retarded and his family never spoke of him.

When I was pregnant with my 2nd daughter 18 years ago, I had to have an amniocentisis and was told she had a kidney abnormality and "counseled" on my "options".  I was not encouraged to consider adoption or abortion because of my age (24 & happily married at the time) and income level.  I looked that lady square in the eye and told her I didn't care if my baby was born inside out, just tell me if it was a boy or a girl!

My 3rd and last child was born 16 yrs. ago on the 10th of October with Cystic Fibrosis, a terminal lung disease.  She was diagnosed when she was 5 weeks old and is currently being considered for a lung transplant that won't cure her but maybe expand her life by maybe 5 more years. When people find out about her medical condition their whole demeanor changes to one of "poor you, how do you do it?" or "I couldn't do it if I were in your shoes".  You know what?  This little girl has taught me more about love, compassion and understanding than anybody or anything else in life could.  I believe I was blessed with her for a reason!  If I didn't have her to take care of, I'd have to wonder what my purose in life really was.  My daughter only told 2 or 3 close friends of her disease because she wanted people to like her for her, not her disease!  When she started high school last year, she spent more time in the hospital than she was able to spend at school and kids started wondering why she was gone for 3 & 4 weeks at at time and she finally broke down and told everyone about her disease.  Most who teased her relentlessly for her excessive coughing (some even hoping she'd hurry up & die from coughing so much or refused to be near here out of fear they could catch whatever she had) have yet to be able to look her in the eye or befriend her, others opened their arms & hearts to her!  There's just all different types of people who will always see situations in many different variances!  Some people see the beauty in others, some only see the things that make them different!

You & I look for the beauty in others!

"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 7:42pm — Rob Richards

They hate us for our freedoms.

So if we do away with all our freedoms they won't hate us anymore? Maybe we should just tear up the constitution right now. World Peace might break out.

This moral argument stuff is getting us nowhere, like a game of tug-o-war between identical twins. How about instead of trying to prove the other side is wrong morally, we focus on how you would convince a court, like the Supreme Court. That might get us somewhere we haven't been yet in our brains.

I'm so tired of this icky moral condemnation crap.

Wed, 10/03/2007 - 12:43am — Robert Whitlock

over the top reactionaryism

I am not interested in participating in hostile protests. Everyone has a right to express his or her own beliefs. I just can't see how raising a fuss will help to promote understanding and reconciliation. I think hostile, angry, aggressive, etc. behaviors will serve to further the divide, and further the misunderstanding and miscommunication, between those who are already divided.

I think a confrontation is appropriate, and certainly a response is appropriate. But to react and behave in a manner that is hateful or hurtful is simply destructive. I can't support that. I support constructive / creative responses. Dialogue, etc.

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:44pm — Guglielmo

Oaky,

Now everyone switch sides. That will be much more fruitful.
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 4:07pm — DC

Sorry

But you really didn't convince me.
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 4:10pm — Norm

Ready for convincing?

Screw all of this pregnancy crap. EVERYONE should be sterilized at birth. WHEN/IF they prove that they are mentally stable, financially ready, have a high enough intellect level and have the capacity to at least HANDLE the parenting gig, THEN they can be UNsterilized and procreate.

How's that one for ya?

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 4:32pm — Merwyn Haskett

Just like some women are

Just like some women are opting to have mastectomies even when they don't have cancer. They're idea is they're nipping it in the bud before it can happen.

I'm not even making that up.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 5:10pm — Norm

I read a CNN article about

I read a CNN article about that the other day. Huge decision.
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 5:18pm — DC

Oh you misunderstand me

I meant I wasn't convinced you had switched sides, but thanks for trying to see things from another perspective.
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 5:27pm — Norm

I know

I just wanted to see if I could convince you better than Merwyn could =D
Tue, 10/02/2007 - 10:27pm — Pro-life Catholic

Now you're starting...

to sound like the founder of Planned Parenthood... Margret Sanger; Sanger's periodical, the Birth Control Review, was know for its endorsement eugenics, the belief that the human race could be improved if certain people did not reproduce. In an excerpt from the April 1924 issue she says: "How are we to breed a race of human thoroughbreds unless we follow the same plan? We must make this country into a garden for children instead of a disorderly back lot overrun with human weeds." In her book, Woman and the New Race, (Eugenics Publishing Company, 1923) Sanger tied together eugenics and birth control by saying: "Birth control itself, often denounced as a violation of natural law, is nothing more or less than the facilitation of the process of weeding out the unfit, of preventing the birth of defectives or of those who will become defectives." (p. 229) In Sanger's 1932 Plan for Peace, she wanted "to apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted, or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring." She then desired to make a list of the "illiterates, paupers, unemployables, criminals, prostitutes, dope-fiends" and "segregate them on farms and open spaces as long as necessary for the strengthening and development of moral conduct." Such thoughts sound sort of similar to Nazi Germany? In Margret's 1938 autobiography, she describes her experience after speaking to the women's branch of the Ku Klux Klan by writing: "In the end, through simple illustrations I believed I had accomplished my purpose. A dozen invitations to speak to similar groups were proffered. The conversation went on and on, and when we were finally through it was too late to return to New York." Dr. Clarence Gamble and Margaret Sanger to diminish the number of black babies being born proposed the Negro Project. As part of a December 10, 1939 letter, Margaret Sanger wrote to Gamble, saying: "We do not want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten that idea out if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members." But the part that you sound like most is this; Sanger was for licensing people to have children based on race and social class. Some might be able to have one child, but a very small few would be allowed two and only the most elite could have three. Sanger, from her book, Woman and the New Race: "Many, perhaps, will think it idle to go farther in demonstrating the immorality of large families, but since there is still an abundance of proof at hand, it may be offered for the sake of those who find difficulty in adjusting old-fashioned ideas to the facts. The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it." (Pp. 62-63). Sounds more and more like the Nazis... The history of Planned Parenthood... fascist? Any thoughts?
Wed, 10/03/2007 - 12:10am — Rob Richards

Where have I heard this before?

Oh yeah, on the other thread where it didn't have any relevance to modern day Planned Parenthood.
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 4:16pm — JstPlnOnry

Unfortunately Merwyn

genetic abnormalities are one of the reasons some women do choose to abort.  Couples or single moms don't feel they can afford to care for a genetically abnormal child physically, financially.

As I stated in another post (http://www.olyblog.net/planned-parentood-support), abortion should be legal because sometimes the kids are born into terrible homes. They start out disadvantaged, their lives are nothing but misery, they're neglected, beaten, and not when but IF they grow up they become part of the viscious circle.

You worded it better than I did in my other post when you said Come to think of it, abortion doesn't go far enough. All these people say they care about sparing the child from a potential future of agony, but they do nothing about the children who are in the situation.

There are positive sides & good arguments to abortion whether an individual likes it or not. 

 

"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 4:37pm — Merwyn Haskett

Referencing the last two

Referencing the last two paragraphs:

There seems to be two schools of thought for doing something about that problem. (I'm ignoring the third "do nothing" group)

One group wants to try to educate, bring social aid, fund, donate, volunteer, locally or globally, each to their ability. The other group wants to terminate.

There are people who've overcome the obstacles of their upbringing. Also, whenever I see the Special Olympics the one thought that never crosses my mind is "these kids were burdens."

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

Tue, 10/02/2007 - 9:42pm — Pro-life Catholic

YES!!!

You are a poet...
Wed, 09/26/2007 - 12:29pm — Merwyn Haskett

Even though I don't agree, I

Even though I don't agree, I don't have any problem with the suggestions except for "outrageous-over-the-top solidarity protests"

That sounds like you (not you personally, the all-encompassing You) are incapable of going point-counterpoint, are incapable of "agreeing to disagree", and just want to cause problems. For example, what exactly would Pro-Masturbation signs or pictures of hardcore porn (suggested elsewhere) have to do with supporting a woman's right to choose?

I'm curious to see if the city will send the cops in to clear the sidewalks.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:44pm — Norm

I think the porn was to see

I think the porn was to see if it would make them go away. Like a scarecrow :)
Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:54pm — OperaGirl

I use porn scarecrows in my

I use porn scarecrows in my garden.  What else would one use? 

*I am that person who doesn't throw out rotting things because they're scary and who kills wasps by spraying things on them and screaming.*

Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:30pm — Guglielmo

Me too. But it doesn't work

Maybe it's because I got the Ron Jeremy model. The crows just use it as a perch.
Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:34pm — Norm

I am SO sorry I started all

I am SO sorry I started all of this.
Wed, 09/26/2007 - 4:37pm — OperaGirl

It works best if you have

It works best if you have more than one porncrow....your Ron Jeremy model needs backup.  

*I am that person who doesn't throw out rotting things because they're scary and who kills wasps by spraying things on them and screaming.*

Wed, 09/26/2007 - 4:46pm — Merwyn Haskett

Isn't a porncrow where you

Isn't a porncrow where you impale an inflatable doll in the middle of a porn field? I was wondering what I could do with my old...I mean....I was just wondering. Yeah.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

Wed, 09/26/2007 - 5:18pm — Norm

Well

provided you don't get caught, you could use it (or "her") for the HOV lanes.
Wed, 09/26/2007 - 6:02pm — OperaGirl

*I am that person who

*I am that person who doesn't throw out rotting things because they're scary and who kills wasps by spraying things on them and screaming.*
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:53am — Norm

Am I grossing you out?

If so I'm sorry, I'll stop.
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:17am — OperaGirl

My comment was eaten. 

My comment was eaten.  Weirdness. 

*I am that person who doesn't throw out rotting things because they're scary and who kills wasps by spraying things on them and screaming.*

Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:28pm — OperaGirl

When I drove by this

When I drove by this morning I was thankful that there were no dead baby signs.  I really hope they don't harass people going into the building.

I am also curious about the sidewalk thing.  We'll see... 

*I am that person who doesn't throw out rotting things because they're scary and who kills wasps by spraying things on them and screaming.*

Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:56pm — Rob Richards

Those of you that are

Those of you that are curious should call the city to report the violations. You don't have to give your name and the more calls they get the more likely they are to do something about it. If it's allowed, and the city doesn't do anything about it, then I'm starting a yearly protest that lasts 365 days on the city sidewalks downtown and getting everyone signs to hold while sitting.
Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:00pm — Ehver Green

I don't know where Planned

I don't know where Planned Parenthood is, but is it part downtown covered by the ordinance?
Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:08pm — Rob Richards

Yes

The ordinance covers from the northernmost point on the port peninsula to Union Avenue from north to south, and from Plum Street to the bridges east to west.
Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:10pm — Tschida

Does that same ordinace apply to counter protesters as well?

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:16pm — Ehver Green

Of course it does.

Of course it does.
Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:28pm — Guglielmo

Oh no. Not at all.

There is a special moonbat exemption.
Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:37pm — Ehver Green

Sometimes I get a moonbat

Sometimes I get a moonbat stuck in my funvent.  The only way to get it out is to turn on the sun.
Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:27pm — Rob Richards

Well,

By law, protests are protected by the constitution and no local law could prevent a group from having a protest, even on a sidewalk. I don't know that a 40 day protest would be considered protected though, normally protests are much shorter in duration.

I'm interested to see what the city's response will be. I have a feeling they will say that the protest is protected and will not do anything.

Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:38pm — Ehver Green

I should have said more -

I should have said more - but I'm working here folks!

Whatever action the city takes they will have to apply equally, that's all.

Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:25pm — Anonymously Larry

Make a donation to Planned Parenthood

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:38pm — Rob Richards

Yes, and

I'm all for people donating money, but sometimes it's just not enough. People, especially liberals, need to realize that writing checks doesn't create community, only getting on your feet and helping can do that. Donate money if you can, but call them and find out what they need, if you don't have the time to spend helping, at the very least you can help by spreading the word or organizing. Most organizing can be done over the phone or internet, you can set up a Google group and have people sign up for shifts on the calender they provide. It's so easy.
Wed, 09/26/2007 - 11:51pm — xavier

I don't get abortion...

I honestly don't understand why people want to have babies killed. They are innocent and helpless. A normal animal will fight to provide safety for their goslings/cubs/etc. To hear stories about puppies and kittens abandoned in dumpsters is heartbreaking to us all. Even when they are microscopic, we know scientifically they are human children. Scientists want human embryos to do stem cell research, not pig or monkey embryos. (And we are pretty similar to both in a lot of ways.) There are so many families wanting to adopt babies. There are so many people that will help women that want to keep their baby but need assistance as the child was not planned. We used to think abortion on demand would decrease child abuse and help women be happy. That has not proved to be true. Lately, I have seen a t-shirt/bumper sticker that says "Abortion is mean". That makes sense to me. So many women (that look like they have it all together) have told me how bad they feel about having an abortion 1 year, 5 years, 25 years later. I really feel sad they live with this pain. Well, I am not trying to start a fight. Just wondering. BTW, someone was wondering about the location, the Planned Parenthood office is located at 402 Legion Way in Olympia. Hope to see you there in the next 39 days! "Pray, hope and don't worry." St Pio
Wed, 09/26/2007 - 11:53pm — Rob Richards

Really??

"Pray, hope and don't worry."??

Really??

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 7:43am — Anonymously Larry

xavier

I don't get why the anti-abortion crowd didn't exist until abortion became safe and legal.  Women died and were mutilated for years dealing with the dilema of an unwanted pregnancy (yes, human beings have more of a choice mechanism than other animals.  By the way, have you ever seen a cat kill her litter?  I watched a mother duck leave her ducklings, to protect herself this spring, and allow an eagle to have a buffet for breakfast).  Yet, people speaking out against abortion only became vogue when it became safe and legal.

What makes sense to me is understanding that not all of us have the same choices everyday. 

By the way, what is your take on the War in Iraq?  Do you think war is mean?  Do you think that veterans that fight in these wars don't bear their scars, physical and emotional, for the rest of their lives?

I don't want to start a fight either.  I want to have open dialog on this subject.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:01am — Merwyn Haskett

I'm hoping to keep away from

I'm hoping to keep away from the usual point/counterpoints here, since we would repeat ourselves over and over again without changing the others' minds and possibly leaving with bad blood. We know what the other thinks anyways, and I prefer liking people.

So I'll focus solely on the "in vogue" question. It wasn't just abortion that people were suddenly talking about, either for or against. It was practically anything that could be remotely linked to sex or sexuality. None of it was talked about or discussed, sex was shameful, even married couples were portrayed in separate beds. Unplanned pregnancies were hidden, the mother ostracized. Rapes were kept quiet, if anything was done it was "Family Business". Even adoption had a stigma.

You ended up with situations like Jack Nicholson, Ted Bundy, and someone I went to school with who grew up believing their mother was their sister, and their grandma was their mother.

As for Pro-Life activists not getting vocal until Roe vs. Wade, my guess is that most of the early guard were in denial that the law could ever be passed in the first place.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:46am — Norm

uh, because it was illegal

uh, because it was illegal before then and didn't need a crowd, they had the law and the court system to be vocal about it.
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:32pm — Anonymously Larry

Norm

Do you think illegal abortions didn't happen?  Of course they did.  Women died, were mangled and rich little girls got theirs done by doctors outside the United States with a hush hush.  Legal and safe abortion made the same procedure available to all women, regardless of affluence.

I never saw a bunch of protestors at an airport making sure that everyone knew that someone might be hopping a flight because they had  the means to do so.

Abortion is as old as prostitution in terms of the existance based on need.  Availability is the issue that changed with Roe V. Wade.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:09pm — Norm

Of course I think they

Of course I think they happend, I've seen a few lifetime movies in my short time on Earth. That doesn't change the fact that there was no need to protest them because they were illegal. I'm sure if someone came across a doctor they thought were performing abortions they simply called the police. Why would they need to stand outside the doctors office protesting them if they can just get them arrested?

I am addressing your one statement Larry, that's it.

I don't get why the anti-abortion crowd didn't exist until abortion became safe and legal.

Above, is my guess as to why.

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 2:03pm — Anonymously Larry

I guess you're missing the irony

Abortion is, has and always will go on, regardless of the law.  What appears to be protested is that someone made it legal and equal for all.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 2:56pm — Merwyn Haskett

Much as I'm sure there'd be

Much as I'm sure there'd be protests if the law changed and sent Muslims to internment camps.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

Fri, 09/28/2007 - 11:11pm — xavier

yes, war is mean

Having worked with veterans for 27 years, I have seen the terrible effects of war. And it keeps on giving. Yesterday I talked to a beautiful 26 year old woman with a purple heart and I didn't have the guts to ask her how she got it. It's overwhelming. I don't know what to think about WW1 and WW2, (I do realize there were wars before those 2 but I have never known anyone personally that was there and I'll be the first to say I am not a historian) Those wars seemed to be about freedom, we were fighting people that have the similar values assigned to certain words, for example, win, lose, surrender, freedom, forgive. But even though it's all over, why in the world do we still have a military "presence" in Germany and other countries? That's what I want to know. The Middle Eastern world is too different from us culturally. And I think it's mostly about oil and/or power and the regular folks in Iraq and our soldiers and their families are paying for greediness. People on this blog keep shaming each other, but this calls for real shame for our politicians. (it really bugs me to see/hear "shame on you") I have always heard (from vets) that the Viet Nam war was lost by our leaders and the way they never completed a task. I read an excellent book: "The Bright Shining Lie" by a lifer military man that was so disgusted by the VN war he requested discharge and returned as a journalist. He describes exactly that, 2 steps forward and 1 step backward. Not only do our vets bear the scars, their families do also. After all this pontificating on my part, what has this got to do with abortion anyway? Young people dying or what? "Pray, hope and don't worry." St Pio
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:48am — Rick

What do you think about...

...the fact that 1/3 of all pregnancies end in miscarriage (spontaneous abortion)? Does this number of "unborn babies" trouble you at all?


When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:51am — Norm

Isn't that beyond anyone's

Isn't that beyond anyone's control though? How do you protest women having miscarriages?
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:08pm — Rick

It's a question...

...about how the human reproductive system works, not about protesting. I'm wondering if "babies" lost through miscarriage are considered differently. I'm sure OG is right about "God's will." But, what makes it OK for God to abort fetuses, but not pregnant women? Presumably, God has a purpose. Women also have reasons for terminating a pregnancy. Why is it wrong for women?


When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:17pm — Norm

My Grandma had more than one

My Grandma had more than one miscarriage, they always had a little funeral when it happend.

Human vs. divine Rick, that's my guess here.

If God allows (not my word of choice) a person to die in a car accident we mourn the loss of life and have no place to put the blame.

If a person is driving drunk and slams into the person and they die, we mourn the loss of life but have someone to blame. The death was caused by someone who can pay restitution or be punished for harming another.

Woman miscarries = nobody to blame, except in certain circumstances. Blame God if you want but it won't get you anywhere. The death could not be stopped.

Woman aborts = the woman could be blamed. The death could possibly ( as stated earlier about the number of miscarriages, there are no guarantees ) have been prevented. She could have cared for the child, and if not possibly given the child to a family who couldn't conceive.

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:20pm — Rob Richards

yeah butt

Wouldn't an abortion be god's will also, if we're going to be Calvinist about it?
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:22pm — Norm

Depends on how you view God

Depends on how you view God vs free will.

Is it God's will that you have a miscarriage?

Is it your intervention in God's plan when you have an abortion?

Were you meant to have the abortion by God's design?

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:30pm — Rob Richards

that's the problem

God gets credit for the good things, and sometimes the bad (God's will, God's plan, The Lord works in mysterious ways), but when it comes to abortion or things like murder and rape, God is disconnected. A truly omnipotent God would know about the bad things and allow them to happen or make them happen by his will. You can't have one and not the other, either he controls everything, or he doesn't control anything and just watches, or he's not all that he's cracked up to be.
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:32pm — Norm

The problem is deeper than

The problem is deeper than that Rob. You are trying to disect (sp?) someones faith, their belief system. Where you see a huge unknown, others see an omnipotent being that they fear/love/whatever. As far as Christians are concerned, you can have both, and everything.

You can't always apply logic to that....it's just faith.

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:48pm — Rob Richards

ha

"You can't always apply logic to that....it's just faith."
That made me laugh. I don't know why.

Oh, and I don't see a huge unknown, I'm atheist, not agnostic.

The problem is that logic can't be applied to it. Religion allows people to get away with making no sense. I can be Christian and against abortion yet pro-death penalty, pro-war but anti-murder, on and on. It makes no sense, and it never will. In my opinion, the sooner the current major religions die out, the better. My only fear is that something else will take their place, capitalism has already started trying to do that.

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:51pm — Guglielmo

Oh Rob

Poking a stick in the hornets nest I see. Settle down bucko. Read a little Thomas Merton why don't you...it'll do you some good.
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 2:04pm — Norm

LOL

Rob, there are no hard-fast rules! I'm Catholic, but am pro-choice, pro-death penalty, moderate-war, anti-murder, pro-self defense killing, pro-ass kicking when it's necessary. Quit trying to pin me down, I'm a free spirit =D
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:52am — OperaGirl

I believe that is looked at

I believe that is looked at as being "God's will".

*I am that person who doesn't throw out rotting things because they're scary and who kills wasps by spraying things on them and screaming.*

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:28pm — Merwyn Haskett

Evil is a point of view...We

Evil is a point of view...We are immortal. And what we have before us are the rich feasts that conscience cannot appreciate and mortal men cannot know without regret. God kills, and so shall we; indiscriminately He takes the richest and the poorest, and so shall we; for no creatures under God are as we are, none so like Him as ourselves, dark angels not confined to the stinking limits of hell but wandering His earth and all its kingdoms. I want a child tonight. I am like a mother...I want a child!
Lestat de Lioncourt

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:36pm — Guglielmo

There is nothing admirable

about an involuntary saint.
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:43pm — Nanci

I was present at the pro PPWW last Friday

Last Friday I was a part of the support Planned Parenthood group and wanted to write about what I witnessed. I believe in our right to free speech even when I don't agree with what is being put forth, however I was horrified by the anti abortionists hatred and disregard of the trauma to living children they are causing by their graphic signs. A mother was driving by and stopped to say she was appalled by the graohic images her four year old would have been subjected to. The anti-abortionist told her her daughter should see the images so she would see what abortion does to babies! Keep in mind a four year old does not have the cognitive abilities to place any of this in context, and would possibly suffer trauma from the images. The anti abortionist egged this woman on until the woman punched the sign, the anti abortionist then called OPD. The more support extended to PPWW the more hateful the antiabortionists became. As a group that is there supposedly because of their christian faith I was appalled by their disregard for the living breathing children that they are impacting. While not a christian I am familiar with Christ's teachings and no where did he say to sacrifice a child's well being in his name. This group wants to force pregancy on women (a form of enslavement in my opinion, 'cause face it boys you still don't have to choose to be responsible for the children born)and then disregard the emotional damage they cause. Please warn parents to not drive by Planned Parenthood over the next 40 days and nights or on Fridays - the images on the signs are graphic and children should not be subjected to them.
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:52pm — Rob Richards

thanks Nanci

I am organizing some solidarity presence down there as we speak. I'd also like to help get people plugged into spots that PP needs filled, like escorts for clients in and out etc.

Feel free to send me a private message and let me know how to help with that, and who I should contact.

Thanks for your work.

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 2:06pm — Norm

LOL

Egged her on until she punched the sign? Give me a break. I don't like the signs either, but I'm not going to stop and feed the circus animals. Sounds like the woman was either a little slow, or likes confrontation. Either way, is punching a sign in anger a good thing to show your 4y/o? I'm thinking both sides need to grow up.

What's wrong with just letting them do their little protest?

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 2:22pm — Rob Richards

Nothing

And nothing wrong with holding counter protests either.
Thu, 09/27/2007 - 3:47pm — Norm

So what do you think Rob,

So what do you think Rob, good for a 4y/o to see their parent lose it an punch a sign because she's mad at a protestor?

Hold the counter protest, I think it's great, like I said I'm a breath away from going down to watch the event(s). Please don't punch each other's signs...or each other.

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 3:13pm — Merwyn Haskett

Why'd she punch the sign, I

Why'd she punch the sign, I wonder. Why didn't she point to the image and say "This is what I support, there's nothing wrong with it." Why won't anyone do that? It's because they want to remain in denial about what abortion really is.

If it was limited to the early stages where we're dealing with a mere clump of cells you wouldn't see so much passion, but these people want the law to say that a full-term child can be rearranged, pulled out feet first, and have the still buried head stabbed, the brains scrambled and vacuumed. Too graphic? Too over the top with the description? Just give it a neutral medical name, keep it behind a curtain, and everything's all right.

With that logic then it should be alright that the White House wants secret courts and secret prisons.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

Thu, 09/27/2007 - 3:07pm — Merwyn Haskett

Yeah, as long as we stick

Yeah, as long as we stick our heads in the sand, come up with sanitized words to negate their true meaning, and keep the truth from seeing the light of day, we can hide in our denial and protect our conscience.

I suppose television news should never have shown the maimed burnt bodies of Vietnamese civilians, or the mutilated thousands in Africa or Serbia. Too upsetting, and it might persuade some people who currently think otherwise that War isn't a good thing. Someone else mentioned the images of Jews during the Holocaust.

But kill the kids as long as it makes us feel better. Gotta love humanity.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

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