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Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Sat, 03/24/2007 - 4:58pm.
So, the Terrorist State of Israel has its own Myspace Page now. It's an official page, directed by officials of the Foreign Ministry.
» I know I'm being harsh, perhaps unfairly. After all there are good people in Israel, there is much beauty in the Holy Land, and the history and culture are fascinating. But we know full well they are as much terrorists as the suicide bombers. Only difference is Palestine doesn't get billions of American dollars each year to fund their military. Palestine doesn't get American support to steal land, destroy homes, murder people. Palestinians are prisoners in their own land by people who can't authentically verify their lineage from one of Jacob's sons. Israel also has her own blog. These two sites are trying to entice military-aged Americans who happen to be Jewish over to the Holy Land. In fact, any young American Jew can get a 10-day all expenses paid trip there, where they can become a citizen and join the military and drive their own Caterpillar. Why doesn't the DoJ consider this terrorist recruitment? Why don't they have anyone connected to this on a Do Not Fly list? If there's a similar program for American Muslims to visit Mecca you know the Bush Junta has their nose in it.
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Hmm
Submitted by OlyCop on Sat, 03/24/2007 - 7:47pm."But we know full well they are as much terrorists as the suicide bombers."
Bull! The Palestinians are fighting like they know how, but they are far far worse than the Israel. Israel's response is defensive in most of the cases.
You guys just don't get it here on olyblog.
The good thing is, the political opinions expressed by the prevailing talking heads here are so far from the main stream and reality that you really are irrelevant.
"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party." Mao Tse Tung
Why are they worse than
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Sat, 03/24/2007 - 11:52pm.You say we just don't get it. Well, it's you who doesn't get it. You don't get that the Palestinians are prisoners on their own land. They can barely go to work, or buy food, or visit relatives without being stopped every five feet to have their papers checked. There homes are being razed, they're being gunned down when they're unarmed, all because they're predominantly Muslim. They were there first, the Israelis claim Biblical Birthright but none of them could tell you truthfully if they were Levite, Reubenite, Simonite etc.
It's typical thinking from the White-Republican-Christian-with-a-Gun mindset. This idea that non-white-muslims are by definition evil. If that's the mainstream thinking then you can have it. As for middle America being the mainstream, just remember that for all her bullying and bragging America is only 5% of the total world population.
As for you saying that I'm so far from reality that I'm irrelevant, I have a particular Dick Cheney quote for you.
I find it interesting that, with you and I seeing eye to eye on so many things, more than with the average Olyblogger, you'll still think that I'm worthless and irrelevant over an issue we differ on. (I could understand if that issue was Returning Segregation, or Pedophile Rights or something of that ilk.) That says something about you.
It's typical thinking from
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 03/25/2007 - 5:31pm.It's typical thinking from the White-Republican-Christian-with-a-Gun mindset. This idea that non-white-muslims are by definition evil.
Fight fire with fire? The name-calling is really cute and adds to the conversation. One question though: If I have a habit of dating hispanic women, do I get kicked out of the above mentioned club?
I'm White. I'm Christian. I
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 03/26/2007 - 7:59am.You're right about the name-calling, but since I'm "irrelevant" it shouldn't have bothered anyone.
I don't think anyone truly
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 03/26/2007 - 10:17am.I don't think anyone truly feels you are irrelevant. I certainly don't.
I don't agree
Submitted by chad360 on Mon, 03/26/2007 - 11:18am.Your comment is lame: "You guys just don't get it here on olyblog"
...well dude, if "we" don't get it then you don't either.
(and who is this supposed to be directed to?)
I'm responding because you are SO wrong about the what is going down in the "holy land", but I'm not stating my opinion...in fact, I'll ask you, why does the US give aid to Isreal? for UCAV research?, for the development of the UZI? --the amount is in the billions OlyCop, and since you have this "direct access" into what is really happening over there, why don't you share some more...
All I'm going to say on this
Submitted by Summerisle on Sat, 03/24/2007 - 10:36pm.First the Jews were herded
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Sun, 03/25/2007 - 12:00am.But when anyone dares suggest that the Israeli government and military aren't doing right they're labeled Anti-Semitic. Never mind that one has nothing to do with the other.
It's so damned frustrating.
merwyn
Submitted by OlyCop on Sun, 03/25/2007 - 5:33am."The good thing is, the political opinions expressed by the prevailing talking heads here are so far from the main stream and reality that you really are irrelevant. "
Merwyn, the above comment wasn't just for you. It was for all that are of the same political ilk on olyblog, and have the beliefs that are possessed by the majority here. The topic you posted on, and the position on Israel you took, is more in-line with this group than the main stream.
Sometimes, living and woking in Olympia, reading the blog, The Olympian, etc. one can start to believe the world believes like the vocal minority in this area. It would be a sad sad day if that were the truth. But the truth is, Olympia and her politics are aberrant when compared to the rest of the country.
I stepped off the path of only blogging on local issues with these two posts. But, I get sick and tired of the hate directed at Israel. The anti-semite comments like you made are uncalled for and wrong. Israel is not a terrorist state. They are a persecuted people, that want to live in peace, but located in a part of the world that is completely dysfunctional. Has Israel made mistakes, yup they have. But when you are desparate, and all your neighbors are against you, you might make some mistakes.
So I was lubricated with a couple margaritas, and I read your words, and lost it. If I had read the same thing from some of the "progressives" here, it wouldn't have bothered me as much as hearing it from you. I'm used to reading their hateful comments. But, your comments seemed out of character from whom I thought you were. I thought maybe you were succumbing to the near constant propaganda onslaught that occurs here. But I guess you have been lost on this topic already.
"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party." Mao Tse Tung
How is what I said
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Sun, 03/25/2007 - 8:16am.My problem is with the Government of Israel's policy of hate against a group of people who were there before them. If the occupiers could show proof positive that their lineage goes back to Jacob then they have a valid Biblical claim but they can't.
It'd be one thing if they just wanted to live peacefully in the Holy Land but from day one they were forcibly relocating the Palestinians, denying them rights, convicting them in Kangaroo Courts, etc.
If you want to disagree with me strongly about Israel's government that's fine, it's your right. But to say my position makes me Anti-Semitic is disgusting. Just because it was created as a "Jewish State" does not mean everything in and of itself represents Judaism.
Two Things:If you want to
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Sun, 03/25/2007 - 8:37am.If you want to play with semantics the Arabians are Semites too. Who's being Anti-Semitic in America now?
Also, Olycop says it would be a sad, sad day if the World thought as the vocal minority in Olympia does. Yeah, it would be a sad world if people weren't persecuted for their race or culture or orientation. It would be a sad world if people weren't starving to death while tons of grain rotted in silos. It would be a sad world if Muslims were allowed to exist. It would be a sad world if unemployment and pollution dropped. It would be a sad world if the Nation's leaders were in tune with the people. Thank God for such virtues as Hate and Greed to keep this planet happy.
Questioning Israel & No Charge of Anti-Semitism? Is it possible?
Submitted by Mike on Sun, 03/25/2007 - 1:18pm.I don't think there is much question that I would fall into Olycop's category of talking heads here who support the Palestinians and tend to see Israel's invasions of Lebanon as offensive, not defensive actions. I would be a person who sees the displacement of the Palestinian people off their land, the isolation of the Palestinians in chopped up communities in the West Bank and overcroweded conditions in the Gaza as offensive actions, not defensive actions. I would see targeted killings of Palestinians by Israel's military as assassinations and offensive, not defensive actions. And I guess these crazy ideas of mine are minority and extreme positions while the "defensive" military action of Israel against its arab neighbors and the "defensive" military action of the US in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere is well understood by the "mainstream."
These mainstreamers can see through your words to the inherent anti-semitic character of any support for a people's right to self-determination, to simple survival where the politics of Israel is concerned.
We are living through an Orwellian nightmare where a person can argue that Israel's actions are defensive and not be seen as a fringe kook. These are the times we live in.
The real irony in all of this agitation by right wing fundamentalist crazies is that it is mirrored in the crazy agitation of muslim extremists who can also understand from their correct thinking and their adherence to the faith as they understand it, that it makes perfect sense and is right to assault and kill others who don't agree with their views. These "christian" and "muslim" extremists have so much in common. They want a theocracy. They want a paternalistic and authoritarian society where their values and beliefs are law. That much these extremists can agree on. They understand the truly "defensive" nature of all-out war in a way that we lesser mortals will never comprehend.
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." President Dwight D. Eisenhower April 16, 1953
Yeah...
Submitted by Rick on Sun, 03/25/2007 - 8:24am....that Jimmy Carter. He's sooooo far out of the mainstream.
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
So, the Terrorist State of
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 03/25/2007 - 5:27pm.So, the Terrorist State of Israel has its own Myspace Page now.
Negative. Here is a list, according to the U.S. ,of former and current states that sponsor international terrorism. Israel? Not on the list.
I know I'm being harsh, perhaps unfairly.
IMO? A little.
After all there are good people in Israel, there is much beauty in the Holy Land, and the history and culture are fascinating.
All true.
But we know full well they are as much terrorists as the suicide bombers.
You and I disagree on this one. I don't agree with some of their moves, but I don't chalk them up to terrorists ala suicide bombers.
Why doesn't the DoJ consider this terrorist recruitment?
Please see above list. There's no reason to consider them terrorist recruiters if they aren't considered terrorists.
.....and drive their own Caterpillar.
Cute. One blonde girl gets run over by a bulldozer and it's all Caterpillar fault. I challenge anyone to start looking into US companies and how many people they've killed over the years. I'm sure none of you will bother looking into it, but all of you will still growl about Caterpillar and how evil it is. Smith&Wesson, Colt, GMC, Boeing, (for all of you nuc ordinance folks) Motorola.
Oh, and Jimmy Carter, the representative of mainstream America? Help me out on this one.
Jimmy Carter? Help me out on this one.
Submitted by Mike on Mon, 03/26/2007 - 7:08am.That all seems suggestive of classic American values. Mainstream values. You might want to rethink classing a person out of the mainstream because their contemporary political opinions do not match your own. I think Jimmy Carter's personal and professional life is one that really captures mainstream American values.
Does that help?
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." President Dwight D. Eisenhower April 16, 1953
I guess my sarcastic intonation...
Submitted by Rick on Mon, 03/26/2007 - 7:43am....didn't make it through the keyboard.
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
lol
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 03/26/2007 - 10:16am.I miss you Rick
Negative. Here is a list,
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 03/26/2007 - 8:17am.According to my dictionary terrorism is defined as:
All three definitions apply, and yes #3 applies to Palestine.
Cute. One blonde girl gets run over by a bulldozer and it's all Caterpillar fault.
That's not what I said. In fact, I disagree with the Corrie's sueing Caterpillar.
Oh, and Jimmy Carter, the representative of mainstream America? Help me out on this one.
Mike did an excellent job answering that one.
***
It's frustrating to have an opinion against the government and policies of Israel and be accused of anti-Semitism. (I'm not accusing you of doing that, btw.) Many supporters claim there is no separation. If that's true then Israel should be held to the highest Tanakhic standards. I don't think bragging about bikini photo spreads in Maxim and using exposed flesh to entice young horny American Jews to come over meets that standard. They (or rather, the spokespeople, again I understand there are tens of thousands of good Israeli people) want it both ways.
Weeeeeee
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 03/26/2007 - 10:25am.That's not what I said. In fact, I disagree with the Corrie's sueing Caterpillar.
Glad to hear it. The way it was thrown into the paragraph it seemed a little deragatory(sp?). Hard to read these things over the net sometimes.
I agree with you on the anti-semitism remark. I have never dated an african-american woman, and probably never will, does this make me a racist? I don't think so, but I've been accused of it for that reason.
As far as terrorism, there was a remark made some time ago about the difference between a "terrorist" and a "freedom fighter". We live in a country that views Israel as being victims and on the defensive. I don't really agree with that but until we have someone who takes a hugely different view on Israeli/Palestinian relations Israel will continue to not be considered a terrorist state. The other possibility is the UN actually stepping up and saying "no more" to all of it. I don't see either one of those happening anytime soon though. The U.S. seems to have a strange love affair with Israel.
The UN can't step up...
Submitted by Phil Owen on Mon, 03/26/2007 - 11:25am.The Canaanite's Call
That's why I threw in the
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 03/26/2007 - 11:49am.That's why I threw in the last sentence. It may take the UN stepping out of it's bounds and doing something. I can't imagine that the U.S. would try and outwardly defy the UN and the "unanimous" other countries. Of course waiting for the next president may be a good idea.
I still feel a bit for Israel when I read remarks like these:
World without Zionism is a nationwide event the planners intend to hold annually, and Ahmadinejad made the remarks during a meeting with protesting students at the Interior Ministry.
Ahmadinejad quoted a remark from Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of Iran's Islamic revolution, who said that Israel "must be wiped out from the map of the world."
The president then said: "And God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism," according to a quote published by IRNA.
Now, you and I have talked about this while drinking Phil. You actually changed my perspective greatly in this regard. When you have a president talking about wiping you off the map, those are some pretty strong remarks. I don't think that should condone Israel's behavior toward Palestinians, or any area they feel like encroaching upon, but still pretty strong remarks.
Once again I submitted a
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 03/26/2007 - 10:50am.I knew that I was picking a hot button topic and suspected (correctly) two people who might not agree. On reflection I'm noticing that I've focused on one comment from Olycop which, while I have the right to not like what he said, is no different then what I've said in other situations.
I'm noticing (and I'm guilty of this too) that people can agree on so many things, be almost two peas in a pod, but then one of them offers a thought or opinion that the other doesn't agree with and suddenly they're at each others throats. Maybe that's why couples lose the Honeymoon Phase.
So I take responsibility for not submitting my piece in a different form. The meat was the Myspace and Blog links, with the information on Birthright Trips as a strong supporting sidedish. I should have acknowledged that in general there isn't anything wrong with any of the above. In order to turn towards the direction I took I should have referenced directly any passages that dealt with becoming Israeli citizens. After establishing that I could have pointed out that military service is compulsory for Israeli citizens.
Then, in anticipation of potential charges of racism, I could have made my point about separating the government from the culture instead of waiting for the accusation to come first. Likewise my examples of Maxim photo spreads and similar non-Biblical methods would be submitted as evidence that the Israeli Talking Heads aren't living up to their claim that the culture and State are one and the same, you can't be against one without being against the other.