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Submitted by Rick on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 8:08am.
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OlyBlog.net OlyBlog is devoted to citizen journalism, including hyperlocal news and discussion specifically about Olympia, Washington. If you care about this community and are tired of corporate media, then this is the place for you. If you'd like to contribute, please register for an account. Here is a list of local news beats that need to be covered. You can post your news as a personal blog entry, and it will be reviewed (and possibly edited) for promotion to the front page. Once you've established a record of responsible blogging, you can become an autonomous user. You can also send news via email. All members of OlyBlog agree to abide by our comment and fair use policies. If you are frustrated about something said in a comment thread, go here. Support OlyBlog OlyBlog is run by volunteers who care about Olympia. If you like what we're doing, make a donation: Now playing at: 
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We need to get out of Iraq.
Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 9:35am.We need to get out of Iraq.
We need to get out of Iraq.
Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 2:11pm.I hate to be the bad news
Submitted by armywife on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 3:07pm.Support for Occupation
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Fri, 03/09/2007 - 7:48am.Do you support the occupation?
In the Course of Events
Poor Wally...sorry, he gets
Submitted by Ehver Green on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 10:24am.Poor Wally...sorry, he gets everything coming to him.
A couple of observations. The guy with the megaphone calling a seargent a douche bag, very nice. Mature in every way. Also, the guy with the curly, shaggy hair and five o'clock shadow continually trying to cross the fog line (I think that's what they called it). On a couple of occasions, he looks back to the camera, directly, to ensure what might happen is caught on tape. He was making every effort, short of being criminal, to piss off a cop so the cop would beat him down. The cop should have just turned him around and zipped him up. Also, once the strykers were done, the protest turned to the cops. All this banter about dinner, whatever. That was a real shame. You didn't get what you wanted, so you turn your efforts to those who are there for your protection. I'm even more critical of your actions and your efforts to stop military shipments. My guess would be that you could care less about community support - at least that's how the footage comes across.
Next time you consider this type of event, remember, "You don't have to go!" ;-)
EG,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 10:36am.You have a right to an opinion, it's just that the way you voice it has gotten tired. If you feel like you get picked on here, maybe it's because you're in the minority and you put people on the defensive immediately, so you get ganged up on.
I don't know...
“One man scorned and covered with scars still strove with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable stars; and the world was better for this.
Wait a minute...a video
Submitted by Ehver Green on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 6:59pm.Wait a minute...a video was posted and I commented on it with my opinions. That's all. Ask me to leave if you don't want my opinions. I've got thick skin, you won't hurt my feelings. If you aren't ready for the comments about a video, then don't post it.
Tired? Tell me about it, I get tired of you, too. I don't feel like I get picked on, people generally disagree with me here and I'm OK with that.
You don't know what? You seem frustrated and confused by me. Are you OK with the events at the Port of Tacoma? Is it reasonable to call a member of our military a douche bag? Is it acceptable to verbally attack police officers as they protect you from getting your ass kicked by some GI's? I think you should look at the video again, not as a participant, but as a neutral party. The police were very civilized until approached. They used reasonable force when necessary. You all can talk the talk, but when you cross the fog line, you can't walk the walk. Instead, you cry wolf, you make it about police brutality - everything but the cold reality that someone in your ranks took it too far. Stop crying and sack up.
All this site is about is critisism of some sort. Whether it be the war, or homelessness, or our city council. You just don't like it when you aren't the ones being critical.
Who are you talking too, EG?
Submitted by Rick on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 11:25am.It seems to me that you're talking as if OlyBloggers were in the video, or were responsible for posting it. I think it comes from not having a clear understanding of how citizen journalism works. We're doing news here (decidedly with an edge, but still news), so we're all looking at this as information and talking about it together. When you say things like:
I have no idea who you're talking to. Is it me? I posted the video, but have gone on the record multiple times saying how I think this strategy is counter-productive. OlyBlog is not one thing, and I wish you would be bit more discerning in who you're talking to/about.
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
I wasn't referring to anyone
Submitted by Ehver Green on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 11:30am.I wasn't referring to anyone specifically or by name. I didn't mean to imply that Rob was there or you were there. But, I'm sure many Olybloggers were there - they use this forum as a way to communicate their agenda and events. Apologies for the start of confusion...
With that, I'm done on the topic - no need, the horse has been dead for years.
Quote
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 6:15pm.It seems to me that you're talking as if OlyBloggers were in the video
and from Komo
Caitlin Esworthy, Walter Cuddeford and Jeffery Berryhill were each being held at the Pierce County Jail..
was that not Wally being led into the back of the police van? If not is sure did look like him, plus the people on the video mentioned "Wally" quite a few times at the end.
----
Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 7:39pm.What good are your opinions if they fall on deaf ears? If you have an opinion, there might be people that benefit from that opinion. Instead of framing your opinion in a way that backs people into a corner and makes them only want to fight back, perhaps a different approach is needed. I believe you have stated that you are against the war. So are these protestors. There's some common ground. Your problem is with their methods, perhaps they've thought and thought and this is what they've come up with. Maybe you don't have the time or energy to go to a protest but could attend a planning meeting once a week to get people excited about your ideas for stopping the war. The PMR is not a militant body with facist leaders, it's a democratic or consensus group. All ideas are welcome. I would like more than anything to stop the fracturing of progressive groups and build a network so that if the PPU wants to hold a rally, we can count on the PMR and OMJP and environmental groups and whoever to attend as well. I honestly don't agree with the tactics of a lot of the anti-war movement but I am glad they're doing it. Someone needs to be doing it.
As far as the name-calling and behaviors of one or two folks, I think it should be taken with a grain of salt. Last year at the port a few "anarchist superstar" dumbasses caused me and about 250 other people to get gassed. If the police had focused their attention on just the few, many innocent people would have been spared. I guess what I'm saying is don't judge an entire movement based on the actions of a few wingnuts.
Along the same lines, I am not a reflection of this site and it is not a reflection of me. I post here to share ideas with everyone in a civil way, there have been times when people I have agreed with have gone off on other bloggers and crossed, in my mind, a lot of lines and I called them on it. I'm not judging you. I'm not saying your opinions are not welcome. If anything, the point I'm trying to make is that I WANT to hear your opinions. I want to hear them without the vitriol though. I bet we agree on a lot of things, but just can't see it through this fog.
“One man scorned and covered with scars still strove with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable stars; and the world was better for this.
yup
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 11:42am.Last year at the port a few "anarchist superstar" dumbasses caused me and about 250 other people to get gassed.
those "bad eggs" again.
Uh, ...what makes you think that is a OK thing to do?
Submitted by chad360 on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 11:23pm.nice choice of words, really classy--
So, you condone that kind of flame-out, but not on OlyBlog, just on the daily zero?
Nice position to take, real even & rational...pls put up a sign when you are getting your rocks off, OK? ...I don't wanna get splashed by your foul rhetoric! :-)
No, not what I said.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 4:38pm.“One man scorned and covered with scars still strove with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable stars; and the world was better for this.
Have you ever served?
Submitted by Taryn G on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 6:39am.First of all I would like to say that I think that our G.I.s where not interested in "kicking our ass" as Ehver Green has surmised. An nor do I believe that the Police are really sure of their own role in this "domestic protection of troops". If Police are supposed to protect and serve the citizens then did they fulfill their mission? If state and federal militias (troops) are for our common defense are they serving their purpose?
In the interest of seeing real meaningful dialogue happen on OLYBLOG I respectfully submit the following:
I'm writing this in the interest of appealing to all of the citizens of WA state. Those who serve actively in the democratic process as demonstrators of their soverign rights and those that have chosen to serve in the "federal and state militias".
I ask you all to think about what both roles mean and how we all together ensure the dream of a republic that is democratic in nature and serves its citizens (NOT Just serving CORPORATIONS--SERVE CORPORATIONS USING STATE APPARATUS--IS TERMED "FASCISM").
Many in the culture see white supremacy as a form of "fascism" due to Hitler's dream of a white master race. But Fascism is not really that it is something much more than just giving privilege to one skin color. It is using the wealth of a state or republic to do the bidding of those elites who have decided to control the markets using the state's apparatus. The media, the military and now the citizens are being tried in their conscience of whether to participate in the "new world order" agenda of those select elitist who have taken over the key places of high power.
If you haven't ever served in the military then you don't really understand what it means to be indoctrinated nor do you understand the pull to stay with your military family and protect them no matter what. I'm not against military and in fact was raised in the military and was in the military for awhile. I understand what a military is really supposed to be used for -- For the common defense of the citizens as called for in the constitution. Not as a handmaiden to corporate fascists. I do not believe it is correct constitutionally, morally, or spiritually for that matter to use military for any other purpose bottom-line. The compulsion of the Port Military Resistance is to stop the progress of those evils which are outside of proper use of the military.
The resistance to the movement of material support/and troop renewal is a way to stop the supply chain of the fascist's use of our federal and state militia resources. Irregardless, of how some of you may be calling the plays from armchairs there are actually real people out on the streets asserting themselves to resist. I say to you who think you know how to do better to get in there and share your wisdom, temperance, and resolve with your foot soldier citizens who are resisting the fascist use of our troops.
The middle east is about oil, hegemony and power. If the "leaders" really wanted to seek security for its citizens they would be doing different actions. For example they would create incentive for innovations that would get us out of "resource wars". But wars make money for the fascists that now control the military industrial complex.
Yes, it is not as simple as you would like but hey the truth is the truth.
Those people that are serving in the military must now seek their conscience and decide to whom do they owe their loyalty --the outlaw rogue elitist occupying the Whitehouse and cabinet posts or the the people of the U.S. (who oppose what is going on in Iraq and are against preemptive strikes to Iran).
It is not a time for those faint of heart granted but it is a time when people begin to see their neighbors and friends being persecuted for resisting; they will have to decide. I ask you how are you going to serve?
Solidarity.
Question for Ehver Green
Submitted by jlw on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 11:11am.Really, do I need to lay it
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 8:28pm.Really, do I need to lay it out here for all of you to read? If you condone his actions (past and present), then you won't care what I say. If you deplore what he does and find it to be counterproductive, then you understand my comment.
I grew up with Wally. I could hit his parents house with a rock from my backyard. Old Shana Park BMX crew. I know what I'm talking about here...
I think you need to be specific
Submitted by jlw on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 12:50pm.Specifics
Submitted by Sarah on Thu, 03/08/2007 - 12:59am.Woooh
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 5:31pm.Wow, is someone messing with the thermostat? I could swear the temperature just shifted.
Really it just feels......OH did you hear that? I think that was my phone ringing. I'm sure it's REALLY important. No, no, I'll be fine, I just really need to take this call. Yes? uh huh? Yep! I'm sorry, I gotta go. My, um, Mom is sick with the flu...REALLY bad, she's in the hospital. NO! Don't send flowers, I'm sure she'll be fine but I really have to leave, so yeah, seeya later!
Whew!!
This is the usual story by
Submitted by Mike on Thu, 03/08/2007 - 3:42pm.I don't care about the history or the provocation, when a party steps over that line and assaults another person, the assaulter is in the wrong. I have no interest in the "hey, they had it coming defense." Discussion, provocation, insults, disagreements are legal to a great extent. Assaulting another person is not legal, it is wrong.
The willingness to equate or justify physical assault by anything else that has gone on contemporaneous or historical is a non-starter for me. You smack somebody, you broke the law, go to jail. You want to talk about how they had it coming, write about it from jail. It's seems that EG has been wanting to smack Wally for a long time and is deriving pleasure from what happened to Wally. This tells more about EG than it does about Wally.
For me, so much of this is about coercion, the willingness to use force, to assault others, to countenance physical injury to others for political or personal reasons. Guess what, I think it's wrong. Assault someone, go to jail. Even if, and maybe especially if, you are a policeman entrusted by the community with the authority to use force. The use of force has to be justified. What I have heard so far indicates the force used against Wally was not justified. He did not have it coming even if EG knows him well and could hit his house with a rock.
Excellent comment
Submitted by Sarah on Thu, 03/08/2007 - 8:17am.Mike said, "I have no
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 03/08/2007 - 12:08pm.Mike said, "I have no interest in the "hey, they had it coming defense."" That's where we differ - personally, I prefer the, "If you mess with the bull, you'll get the horns" saying. I believe in consequence.
Mistreated? Wow, the phrase works both ways, ya know. It's no stretch to offer the same type of treatment to our soldiers - no matter how much you disagree with the war.
agreed
Submitted by enpen on Sun, 03/11/2007 - 12:33am.I prefer the, "If you mess with the bull, you'll get the horns" saying. I believe in consequence.
You and I, we see eye-to-eye on this one. I think people going to protest our military should expect to be gassed, physically injured and possibly even incidentally killed. History is an excellent teacher, and violent regimes react violently when questioned. It seems that a breakdown in communication occurs right around here, though.
You keep trying to tell people that, this being a pragmatic universe, people must simply accept this as a matter of consequence. On the other side of the conversation I see a number of people demanding a negative moral value be applied. Do you think that the consequence simply is amoral, or that the consequence is a positive moral one?
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
Let's stay on topic here
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 03/08/2007 - 6:19pm.Let's stay on topic here Mike. Neither EG nor Wally are spousal abusers, you making a comparison in that way is not very nice.
So on your topic Mike, what is your knowledge level on use of force and it's justification? Also, what you have heard of the story, does that include the officer's version, or just the protesters? I'd hope you want both sides of the story for that one. Since you know Wally's side, why don't you share with us?
I can't always tell what you
Submitted by Mike on Fri, 03/09/2007 - 4:41am.One thing I believe is that prosecutors and courts are not enthusiastic about prosecuting police officers. Ask Rodney King.
Another thing to consider when thinking about Tacoma Police is Police Chief Brame, the murder of his wife and his suicide. There was a lot of reason to give the guy a look, but the story in the TPD was that his wife was nuts. He was just a regular guy.
I have a few years of history - volunteer, etc - with the local domestic violence agency. I think a lot of what is wrong in the world can get distilled down to coercion. Scale changes, but the processes are very similar whether you are looking at stealing another country's natural resources as you liberate them or whether you are "straightening out" a family member who has gotten out of line, or you are giving a protestor "what they deserve" as EG would have it. There is line that you cross when you get physically violent with another human being. The line can put (and maybe should) put you in jail. There are reasons why we have laws about assault and battery. There is assault 4. There really is no badmouthing 4. It's graceless, but not criminal, generally speaking.
Another thing to consider
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 03/09/2007 - 9:24am.Another thing to consider when thinking about Tacoma Police is Police Chief Brame, the murder of his wife and his suicide. There was a lot of reason to give the guy a look, but the story in the TPD was that his wife was nuts. He was just a regular guy.
You don't suppose that's all the more reason to drop the cases? To stay out of the spotlight? Or possibly that the cops just didn't feel it was that big of a deal for the prosecutor to press charges, but they wanted the 3 or 4 arrested and out of the fray for the night? Prosecutors choose not to prosecute for many reasons, let's not jump to conclusions here.
Of course the protesters say they are innocent, I'm betting some of the folks up in Tacoma are the same ones in Oly that said things like, "We were pepper sprayed without any warning!" and "Why did they come outside the fence, NOBODY was throwing anything!" both of which are either lies, or some people that were VERY unaware of their surroundings. I take their word with a grain of salt.
I'm not sure what you are getting at with the DV. Do you assume that only people who are willing to commit DV are the people that say "They got what they deserve." ? What does DV really have to do with this conversation, it seems like you are pointing at EG as a present or future "wife-beater".
I'm sorry, but I get to call
Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 03/09/2007 - 1:40pm.I'm sorry, but I get to call Mike an idiot here. He has no clue about me. He randomly brings up domestic violence as a way to communicate his defense re: "they had it coming." Wasn't Mike THE support for misinformation or topic skew? Then he craps on his words and categorizes me as someone who would participate in domestic violence. He's bored, gotta be.
I wasn't going to comment about it, but he just couldn't shut up.
Bah
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 11:01am.My suggestion is to stand
Submitted by Ehver Green on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 7:03pm.Good video, lighting sucked,
Submitted by Norm on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 2:12am.objection noted
Submitted by chad360 on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 3:02pm.I sure hope the military doesn't move thru Oly (again).
Contemplation,
Submitted by Phil Owen on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 11:41pm.The "douche-bag" comment was inappropriate and counterproductive. Enlisted soldiers often feel a strong comeraderie with their NCO's (though maybe not so much with the commissioned officers). This comment likely did little other than to cause offense.
Some of the folks there were also clearly trying to escalate tensions with the police. Not a very productive thing to do, and a good way to get arrested without contributing to the cause.
Nonetheless, the work that the PMR is doing is important. The war has clearly made things worse in Iraq, and continues to make things worse. Our elected leaders are ignoring us (and ignoring common sense), and more serious action must be taken by activists.
The Canaanite's Call
seconded
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Fri, 03/09/2007 - 12:37pm.In the Course of Events
Here I come a "trolling" as I have been called
Submitted by armywife on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 1:37am.Anyway it has been about 9 months since the last Port Prostest.... Perhaps a few weeks more. As those of you know me I am fully aware because my husband's vehicles (by the way that have saved his life and others) were placed on the ships.
Several months ago I was treated unfairly on this blog and really just felt like why bother posting anything. I still read most of the comments and criticism the EG has also stated. I may be a troll as I have been called... or perhaps I am simply not interrested in the other discussion? I have bit my tongue as I have read all the nonsense about one of the crapiest officers in history, Watada. So I dunno take my thoughts or leave them.
As for the Army using Tacoma.. it was probably due to incoming and out going space available.. and should OLY have space I GUARANTEE They will use it ... protest or not. The army really doesnt care nor do the soldiers about these protests. Most people just laugh about how silly the people look. I started to post on this site bc of the intial protest and really couldnt help myself but to note that the people in this video still should be an embarassment to what was publicly advertised as a Peaceful demonstration.
I have personally come to know the war: the effects it actually has on a family- opposed to what people think might happen, the truth vs the media (by the way it is about 10% true) and the honest hard work and help the Soldiers are providing to areas in Iraq.
If anyone wishes that the war didnt have to go on it would be the wife/spouse/families of the soldiers. However, we understand and appreciate what they are doing. There is so much more in life then standing out at night yelling as they move strykers.
I wish everyone who was acting ignorant in the video would have to walk side by side with my husband and his soldiers. See what they see.... I bet all I have that they would be thakful for the Stryker seeing as it is a very safe vehicle.
As for someones comment about the bond soldiers have with NCO's vs officers... I dissagree about how that works. My husband is an officer and there is an incredible bond between them. There may be some difference but that can occur between any level in the army.
So many people say they support the troops... but not BUsh/the war this demonstration proved otherwise. It is a huge insult to the men and women who risk their lives near and far for the rest of the country.
These people should be ashamed... or go take a daily trip with my husband... I bet they couldnt hack it!
To Army Wife
Submitted by Mike on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 6:30pm.Thank You
Submitted by armywife on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 3:00pm.army wife
Submitted by david_olympia on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 10:31pm.There are many out here with our thoughts and prayers for you & the soldiers that are doing their jobs. The people on this blog do not represent the majority. Most people do not support the war, as some of the soldiers that are there. But the majority does support the troops and that we are supportive of son, daughters, husbands and wives that are serving over there. We also support the families that are left behind. It is a shame to have these students berate the soldiers when they are getting ready to ship out. You are correct they couldn't hack a day with your husband.
God bless you & your husband
Youre right the soldiers
Submitted by armywife on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 7:06am.I sincerely hope your
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 8:13am.I also agree that many protesters act like fools. I've been knocked around here and elsewhere for saying so.
But that doesn't mean people don't have the right to protest. If the protesters in Tacoma watched their mouths and stayed in their area they'd have been doing the right thing.
You said "The army really doesnt care nor do the soldiers" about the protests, and that's part of the problem. It's not just the protests, it's everything: The army really doesnt care nor do the soldiers. The Administration will do whatever it wants, the soldiers will just follow orders; some will truly believe they're doing the right thing when they cover up illegal executions or display racist attitudes, others will convince themselves they're doing the right thing so they don't have to face the truth about what they've become. And the rest will say "I never committed any attrocities" but stay silent about their fellow soldiers who did.
The army really doesnt care nor do the soldiers
And that's why there are some people who don't care in return.
OLY Blog's own... Arrested
Submitted by armywife on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 5:49pm.http://www.komotv.com/news/6309112.html
I was reading this article and found this amusing or alarming... or well an insight into some people.
you don't have to go
Submitted by david_olympia on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 8:25pm.Just remember next time they have a demonstration, you don't have to go. If you professor tries to talk you into it because they want to bring the 60s back, just tell him or her, you are refusing to go. If TJ tries to talk you into going, remember don't ask or tell. If Drew tries to bribe you with a pizza resist! If that douche-bag with the mega phone tries to convince you with his persuasive arguments, don't listen to him. You can just stay home, have dinner and we can all just get along.
And if you do decide to go, resist the police arrest. Just do what your telling others to do. You need to get a better camera.
A person should demonstrate
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 4:15pm.So many people who've blocked the Olympia streets on May Day have never heard of Engels, Marx, Trotsky, Lenin, they don't know a wobblie from a proletariat, they've never read a Manifesto of any kind, they don't know Guthrie or Ochs or even Rovics, but they know there's a party in the streets.
Last year's May Day was pretty good.
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 9:49am.Now with meeting in the park
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 9:57am.My beef was that the naked mud wrestlers from years-gone-by could have cared less about the plight of the worker etc.
I better brush up on Bound to Glory before May arrives.
May to the Day
Submitted by enpen on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 12:21pm.My beef was that the naked mud wrestlers from years-gone-by could have cared less about the plight of the worker etc.
I didn't realize that May Day had been entirely dedicated to workers rights.
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
Maybe not. In fact when I
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 8:55pm.Still, blocking the streets with bodies and smashed tvs certainly didn't win any points for "the cause". That year of the mud wrestlers Head Start nearly ran out of time to submit a grant request because of the traffic snarl. Children at and below the poverty line in Thurston, Mason and Grays Harbor Counties would have suffered the following year thanks to the revelers.
flowers on doorsteps
Submitted by enpen on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 9:38pm.That's what I'm talking about! We should have more of that.
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
That's what my friends and I
Submitted by OperaGirl on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 10:42pm.I like to dance around the
Submitted by jlw on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 11:04pm.focus on the good
Submitted by chad360 on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 3:25pm.I will let you know when I hear
Submitted by jlw on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 8:03am.When I was moving stuff from the Camp Quixote I site to the Camp Quizote II site, there was an old Maypole in the center of the lawn, moldy ribbons flapping in the breeze... I guess that means the Unitarians had a Maypole dance?