Charlie Kirry's Account at 4th and Plum

Navigation

User login

Online users

eristalis
madmaxx890
FRESH
Logarithm
Tenzing
Dylan Carlson
JMK
oldtimeydave

Support OlyBlog

OlyBlog is run by volunteers who care about Olympia. If you like what we're doing, make a donation:

OlyBlog is powered by:

Who's new

madmaxx890
Spareshoes
Sara Ballard
GooseKaler
LongRider

Charlie Kirry's Account at 4th and Plum

Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 7:18pm.

I was going to post this in the Open Thread where I originally spoke of Charlie and Lisa's encounter with the the port protesters. That thread is now closed so I'll post Charlie's LTE here:

Protesters threw trash bins, newspaper boxes, Dumpsters and concrete blocks in front of my wife and me, who were in traffic at Fourth and Plum on Nov. 10. We were blocked while about a dozen mostly masked people frantically committed their criminal acts.
Police were not yet in force on that scene as the mayhem was occurring. I photographed the lawbreakers in action as they obstructed the intersection. After traffic was finally cleared, we parked. I then photographed the same lawbreakers without their masks, relaxed, while they laughed and recounted their criminal misdeeds.
I also observed Dr. Peter Bohmer, professor of Marxism and economic justice at The Evergreen State College, coaching the group of about 20 protesters, as they prepared for each new stage of protest action.
I asked the professor how come he wasn't in the middle of the group and if he liked to run the plays from the sideline so he doesn't get himself into trouble? His response to me was a two-word epithet, not suitable for publication.
I have a particular problem over impunity for people who commit criminal acts, and those who lead such criminals.
Ends justifying means doesn't cut it. Causes aside, we have become entirely too tolerant of those who commit crimes. Catch and release, or not catching at all, are counterintuitive messages against crime. Whatever happened to our spine for the law and its inherent justice?
Charlie Kirry, Olympia

Ehver Green's blog
Login or register to post comments

Do you know Charlie EG?

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 8:10pm.

Pretty sad account if what he said is true.

Sorry

Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 10:14pm.

Yes, my uncle.

Lisa and Charlie taking photos outside their car

Charlie is a photographer by trade and my aunt Lisa has taken on photography as a hobby but shes got the eye. Look at both of them with their cameras!

Leave the car at home and walk!

Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 11:13am.

It's tragic that they were inconvenienced, but I'm not sure they're really helping the pro-war cause. They could be poster children for the Ugly Americans: enraged, entitled, crying victim when their afternoon jaunt to the Quik-E-Mart has been delayed. Do they really think the injustices they've suffered are so bad? Get a perspective.

Since you're quick to defend

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 11:18am.

Since you're quick to defend criminals (and I mean criminals, not the protesters who more-or-less stayed law-abiding) can we assume you were one of the masked thugs? You get a perspective, there's more to this community than just you. If it comes down to it numbers and might will win out.

Please give me a second grace. Please give me a second face. I've fallen far down, the first time around, now I just sit on the ground in your way.
Nick Drake

Please refresh my memory, Merwyn

Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 9:25pm.

Where exactly did I defend criminals? I thought I was just snickering at a couple of pudgy hysterics.

Is it your call?

Submitted by Norm on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 11:27am.

I'm thinking you are upset that the public doesn't like some of the protestors display(s). I'm thinking the public is going to remember this little fiasco for awhile, and it won't be a happy memory.

OlyDowntowner is a big

Submitted by Ehver Green on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 12:16pm.

OlyDowntowner is a big downer. He/she has a problem with everything I've posted since I was in London. Confused is about the best way to sum it up.

Leave The Car At Home

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 12:48pm.

and walk? Tell that to those who were trying to get to the hospital for an emergency. Or over to visit their elderly relatives in nursing homes. Tell that to the innocent people in this who were just trying to get to work to earn a much needed income to improve thier living conditions or feed their children. Yeah, I think the injustices these people suffered are bad. Very bad. I have a good perspective on it. You and your ideology are pathetic. Some day, you may be the one inconvenienced while rushing to the hospital or work. One can only hope.

Avoid the hospital

Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 9:23pm.

You bring up a good point, JstPlnOnry: those two are going to be rushing to the hospital pretty darn soon unless they start getting more exercise and learn to control their rage. I'm surprised they got through their devastating encounter with terrorists without stroking out.

The Red Box

Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 8:12pm.

This time it was much bigger than usual. Maybe it had to do with the amount of text in my post. I didn't pay that much attention. I did a bit more research on this and it has been committed to Drupal-5 and HEAD. It's a solid fix. I'm not a SQL guy but it looks like the fix simply changes n.body to r.body (below in bolded italics).

Warning when submitting spam checked blog entry

 Index: akismet.module
=======================================================

RCS file: /cvs/drupal-contrib/contributions/modules/akismet/akismet.module,v
retrieving revision 1.10.4.1
diff -u -p -r1.10.4.1 akismet.module
--- akismet.module 1 Jun 2007 05:26:03 -0000 1.10.4.1
+++ akismet.module 1 Jun 2007 21:14:39 -0000
@@ -494,7 +494,7 @@ function _akismet_node_form_validate($fo
     $sql_args[] = $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR'];
   }
   if ($antispambot_rules['body'] && !empty($form_values['body'])) {
-    $sql_where[] = 'n.body = \'%s\'';
+    $sql_where[] = 'r.body = \'%s\'';   
  $sql_args[] = $form_values['body'];   }
   if ($antispambot_rules['mail'] && !empty($user->mail)) {

I'm almost afraid to ask,

Submitted by stevenl on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 2:35pm.

I'm almost afraid to ask, revealing my small town mind. How is Charlie your uncle?

The Olympian

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 8:16pm.

had this as a Letter to the Editor either yesterday or the day before.

From today.

Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 8:24pm.

From today.

Duh On Me!

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 8:28pm.

You'd already said that it was in the paper! Sorry!

I'm sure your uncle's already turned all their film over to the police but how cool it would be if we were able to see it from their perspective too!

I'll ask him this weekend.

Submitted by Ehver Green on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 12:39pm.

I'll ask him this weekend. Not sure how much he'll be willing to share right now.

EDIT: Charlie and Lisa have agreed to share any and all photos with anyone who'd like them. They have well over 250 pictures.

Isn't Peter Bohmer...

Submitted by curveball on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 6:06am.

the guy who organized a boycott of locally owned and operated Ben Moore's, because his daughter didn't like the service or something and she reached into the cash register to get her money back out, and SHOCKINGLY the proprietors/employees reacted negatively to that?

Peter Bohmer led Evergreen students 15 years ago...

Submitted by Charlie on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 9:42am.

... in taking over the House chambers in the capitol DURING the legislature and holding those chambers for three days. He's been getting away with leading college students as hooligan law breakers for a long time, giving credit for their misdeeds. It's about time his job is at stake for his misdeeds. Now, once again, he's leading and advising students to break laws. "Civil disobience" is a euphemism for criminal acts. Protesting is one thing, committing crimes is quite another. As a photographer myself, I was quite upset by the criminal slime bags who cornered Olympian photographer Tony Overman, taunting him and grabbing at his equipment. These were folks who didn't want their criminal acts being on the record - but they were committing their crimes on public streets. If I ever run across mistreatment of a working photographer like that, especially from the Olympian, I'll protectively put my big carcass in a cross-body block. Don't mess with working photographers in honest pursuit of their trade!

hi charlie!

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 11:20am.

We'd sure appreciate it if you'd tone down the threats of violence and stick to the issues. We try to maintain a civil atmosphere here and avoid arguing and threats.

Welcome.

So quit arguing Rob. I'll

Submitted by Charlie on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 4:41pm.

So quit arguing Rob. I'll protect and defend freedom of the press any day of the week. Prior restraint of the press, in this case a photographer, is an infringment of the constitutional rights. Check it out. Photographers and reporters who record criminal acts and have to endure threats of harm in the process DESERVE our protection. And they'll get mine, if I'm able. That's no threat, it's a completely justified repsonse potential. Find someone else to accuse Rob.

I wasn't arguing

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 7:19pm.

I have spent a lot of time studying journalism and have edited a newspaper, and I'm actually starting again in January. I'm well versed on the rights of the press and rely on them.

Perhaps I should have just let it go, but there has been a lot of talk of glorification of violence on this blog lately and I was just trying to explain to you that we avoid that here. If you're at all familiar with The Olympian comments, then you understand what we're trying to avoid.

The purpose of this site is to provide a forum for the discussion of local events, a place where we can listen to, and learn from one another.

I really wasn't trying to mess with you.

Welcome, Charlie

Submitted by Ehver Green on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 12:18pm.

Glad to see you here!

Was PB

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 12:55pm.

arrested? Serve time for this? Anything? Obviously he wasn't fired from TESC. They actually held the House chambers for 3 days and police didn't do anything? Did they chain themselves to desks? Marble columns? I didn't live here 15 years ago so inquiring minds want to know!

I don't think you offered any threat of violence and you were sticking to the subject and you have every right to protect yourself from people threatening you and would be considered a good samaritan for stepping in when another is being attacked!

Welcome aboard!

To Olydowntowner

Submitted by White Car on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 12:43pm.

It is sad that I feel the need to defend my anger in the Daily Olympian photo. Some seem to assume I was there defending one side over the other, which was not the case. As my nephew stated, my husband is a photographer and I am a “Photo Hobbyist”. Something we do nearly every weekend. I was at the Port earlier taking pictures, as it is a hobby. I had my tripod, which I was later going to take pictures of the fall trees, since we had perfect weather for it. What the caption does not show but some of you might have seen in the video is the dumpster nearly hitting the front of my car, missing it by about an inch. What I was saying to the girl was that better not hit my car or you're in trouble. I do not think I was unjustified in saying that. Most of those who tossed the trash bins and dumpsters in the road were later captured on digital images with masks down. I will be providing my Nephew with the photos we shot from that incident as well as those we shot later when we came back around the block after going through the intersection and having to stop and remove another dumpster in the middle of the road. Photos I had every right to take but was confronted by angry protesters saying I had “No RIGHT” to take their pictures. One last comment, at one point Dr. Bohmer and a student approached us, he instructed her to take our picture for which we posed. His comment to us was “Two can play at your game” How sad that one in charge of guiding so many young Americans, thinks of this as a game.

Thank You

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 1:29pm.

for sharing your perspective. You're right. It is sad you have to defend your anger, here or anywhere else. You were also absolutely right in your stance and to defend yourself! I also read where you were taunted by vulgar language as well. I'm glad your car wasn't damaged. If the protests had been peaceful and nonviolent as stated, that wouldn't have even been a concern.

Unfortunately, some see what you went through as a matter of inconvenience they had a right to cause. Thank goodness you weren't on your way to an emergency like some people who were inconvenienced. It's also unfortunate that people like Peter Boehmer are allowed to keep their jobs influencing young minds the way they do.

I hope you or EG will post all your photos on a photo sharing site and you'll share the link with us! I'd love to see them and all your hobby photos!

Welcome Aboard!

definition of criminals

Submitted by IFerguson on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 12:54pm.

Nowhere in all this outrage about trash bins do I hear any concern for the massive crime occurring in Iraq. Please don't let your world get too small.

Neither the Iraqi citizens

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 2:23pm.

Neither the Iraqi citizens nor the US Military were in Olympia breaking the law. If you give such a shit about Iraq then go over there and do something about it. Rachel Corrie, right or wrong (I personally think right-yet-naive), at least had the guts to go to Palestine.

Please give me a second grace. Please give me a second face. I've fallen far down, the first time around, now I just sit on the ground in your way.
Nick Drake

Control

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 12:16pm.

I can't control the actions in Iraq....neither can you. I can make a far bigger impact here at home over local events.

exactly

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 12:28pm.

Like our port being used to support the war.

Yep

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 12:30pm.

cause that worked so well. Those shipments are still sitting in that port, unable to proceed, it was a brilliant move by PMR really. I meant local as in, making sure that the protestors in that scenario know their efforts were not appreciated.

Well said, IFerg

Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 9:38pm.

I guess for some people it only matters if it's personal.

i remember those people

Submitted by a.future.with.n... on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 3:32pm.

i was at the intersection of plum and fourth on that day. i remember uncle charlie. he was the guy leaning out of his car and yelling "terrorist!" at people. thats a pretty good way to get an epithet not fit to print thrown at you. he then, rather aggressivly in my opinion, drove into the lot and made a really big deal about taking everyones picture and then handing the pictures over to the police. it was all a pretty showy tantrum. we figured he was just another flag waver that had come by to try to start a fight. that was happening pretty regularly.

pete bohmer showed up and, had your uncle stayed to see, quickly talked to the three or four folks pushing dumpsters into the street. i think he and i both thought that was an ineffective strategy for that place at that moment and plans were changed. anyone paying attention and looking at a time line would see that that was the one and only non-human blockade of a buisness street during daylight hours. dr. bohmer had a lot to do with calming people down and helping them find a rational response.

of course right after that OPD showed up and pepper sprayed anyone standing anywhere near a sidewalk.

maybe it's also worth noting that all the dumpsters were then put back and the buisness owner thoroughly apologized to. she was really nice about it and let us all use her bathroom. she saw it was only a couple people, talked to them and we all got over it. geez.

Blockade Act of Criminals

Submitted by Charlie on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 4:19pm.

I found blockading the intersection of 4th and Plum a criminal act. The episode terrorized innocent people. I call 'em like I see 'em. That day I turned my camera toward public acts, criminal ones at that. You are mistaken, however, in my interaction with Marxist professor Dr. Bohmer. My question to him was over why he doesn't take the rap, along with the others, while leading them to criminal acts. He didn't like being pegged for his part, apparently, and the professor was left with only an inarticulate few words in response. "Civil disobedience" is a euphemism for breaking the law. If you do it, you take the lumps. Geez.

"Marxist" professor

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 8:29am.

You sure you don't mean "Commie" or "Pinko."

You seem surprized at the response you recieved for calling people terroists and accusing Peter of "not taking the rap," all the while taking "I'm recording all this horrible lawlessness" snap shots.

Were you up all night Guglielmo?

Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 9:42pm.

Or did you let your pet monkey edit this for you?

Welcome to the blog Charlie

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 12:17pm.

and thanks for sharing your story and photos with us.

Pete Bohmer isn't a Marxist.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 12:29pm.

Pete Bohmer isn't a Marxist.

I appreciate the additional

Submitted by smws on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 4:11pm.

I appreciate the additional firsthand perspective, Ehver Green . I'm thinking that if those particular protesters have reflected on the chain of events, they probably regret their actions. From a human point of view it was a jerk thing to do, and from a strategic point of view it was a pretty bad move. I do recall some video of them being vocally sorry, though. For what that's worth. Anyway, it's nice to see a different side represented here. Olyblog probably seems kind of stacked against you sometimes, and I just wanted to let you know I appreciate this info, even though I'm sure we don't agree on many things.

a.future.with.n

Submitted by White Car on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 4:20pm.

If your going to post then you "Must" get your facts straight. His reference was to the acts of terrorist crimes. You say he drove into the parking lot rather agressively and took pictures. Yes he did take pictures, however I was the one driving and it was not agressively as anyone who is trying to shoot pictures from a moving vehicle knows you need to go slow, which is what I did. We have just as much right to take photos especially when one is documenting laws being broken. By comparing our photos with the videos we counted about 8 or 9 who participated in tossing objects into the road not 3 or 4. Why skew the truth?

i also call em' as i see em'

Submitted by a.future.with.n... on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 9:49pm.

terrorists blow up buildings. timothy mcvey was a terrorist. assholes block roads unneccesarily. now had you been shouting "assholes!" at the protesters, i would have had to agree but terrorist is a bit much. if some random person calls me a terrorist, takes my picture and then gives that picture to the police, then i won't infringe on thier right to do so, but will tell them where they can stick it.

i get it that you're angry and i'm sorry that american leadership led us into a crappy war that is tearing up the social fabric of our country. believe you me, i didn't want that. that said, chill out. some protesters got emotional and carried away, others quickly interviened and along came you, shouting and yelling throwing fuel on the fire. that blockade was up for a couple of minutes, tops.

it seems like your objections go way beyond the protests or the protesters. your repeated references to "marxist" professor Dr. bohmer sound a little mcarthyesque. i get it. you have a problem with leftist thought. okay. you wouldn't be the first. i would caution you though about getting overly carried away. it makes you look like lind of crazy.

In case you didn't know...

Submitted by USMC wife on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 8:00pm.

The definition of terrorism...Terrorism in the modern sense is violence or other harmful acts committed (or threatened) against civilians for political or other ideological goals. Now we can debate if what happened was violdence or harmful but I would have to agree with "Uncle" Charlie calling them terrorist, I know that if I was in that white car with my two small children I would be terrified, and its safe to say my kids would probably be crying in the back seat. I would also like to know, that if blocking an intersection was so important to get a point across, why is it that only 6 of the 57 arrested voted in the primary elections? I would say that if you want to change something start in the voting booth, not on 4th and Plum.

So, if I get what you're saying...

Submitted by Rick on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 9:53pm.

...you would like to equate what happened down at the port with strapping a bomb on your body and getting on a bus full of people or flying planes into buildings? I don't get it.

Did someone redefine terrorism while I wasn't looking? What's the "old" meaning? And why did we need a new meaning?

> Say something interesting or say nothing at all. <

in our community

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 12:20pm.

you have 200 "peaceful" protestors trying to decide for the whole community what will, and what won't be shipped out of our port. They do it by sitting in the middle of the road. They are essentially holding the port, and it's customers hostage. When the police try to disperse them they become violent. I'd call them borderline terrorists.

I think that's a misconception

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 12:34pm.

I don't think it's fair to say that the protesters are "trying to decide for the whole community" anything. I think individually they decided they wanted to be a part of this, organized with like minded individuals and took to the streets. I haven't seen or heard anything that would indicate that they're speaking for all of Olympia.

By their actions

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 12:35pm.

they are deciding for the whole community. Am I wrong here?

NO!

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 2:57pm.

You're not Norm.

I just said

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 3:41pm.

that I didn't think that was the case. So, obviously, if you ask me, yes, you are wrong.

What exactly was decided in your opinion?

well...

Submitted by a.future.with.n... on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 10:17pm.

thats the wikipedia defintion. the websters english dictonary definition is: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

while i fully agree that people in masks blockading a road can be really scary it is a world apart from terrorism. if we start lableling people as terrorists we're heading down a dark road.

we also can't debate whether the actions of the protesters, in this instance, are violent or not. there is no question. while a road blockade is unpleasant, it is totally completely and unquestionably non-violent.

and finally, elections are one way, and not a very good way id you ask me, to effect change. they are not the end all be all. do you like the 40 hour work week? weekends? benefits? the lack of child labor in this country? no one voted that in. those victories were won through outright direct action. keep up on your history for petes sake, this stuff wasn't that long ago.

40 hour work week?

Submitted by curveball on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 9:26am.

Comparing PMR to the strong labor unions we used to have in this country is like comparing a sandlot 'pick-up' baseball game with modified (or no) rules to MLB.

yup

Submitted by a.future.with.n... on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 12:58pm.

similar or dissimilar, early in thier existance labor unions used direct action as a primary tactic. of course i'm not comparing the PMR to organized labor, just pointing out that direct action works well for other folks and it works here for us.

Time Line

Submitted by White Car on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 6:05pm.

Ehver Green, I am putting all my raw photos on a CD for you to use and edit as you wish. I will drop them by your house. All have the dates and all info embedded so you can verify the time line as to the fact that the police did not immediately start pepper spraying anyone. No pepper spray was used until 36 minutes after the police arrived and 51 minutes after the dumpster incident. One has to love digital photography, and its ability to record time.

Hip Hip Hooray

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 6:18pm.

For Aunt Lisa & Uncle Charlie!

let's contextualize

Submitted by finne on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 10:42pm.

There are kids, in Iraq, who don't have arms and legs, or parents, who are born without eyes, or with debilitating muscle and bone and disorders because of the operations of the American machinery of domination. Those are the stakes.

At the point that you are not in the street physically blocking the operations of the US machine(and the shipment of any military equipment is most definitely part of the continuance of those operations), you contribute to the working of that machine. You are complicit.

The people in the white car (at the point that they are making a conscious decision to aid the police and by extension the imperial machinery), and all of the people complaining about how protesters are "breaking the law", are complicit in mass murder.

I know everyone on this thread and all of the people who have a vested interest in the continuation of exploitative social structures will try and "frame the conflict" in some kind of law-and-order duty-bound American way, make the people blockading the streets seem like "terrorists", but we've got the might of the world on our side. You're losing, and no matter how many "people who couldn't get to the emergency room because of misguided criminal protests" there are, I can guarantee that there are many thousands of times more of those people wherever Strikers are carrying US troops. Those people "over there" who don't have kids or hands or eyes or whatever will remember how much you screwed around on their time. I'm tired of trying to convince a bunch of white middle-class "common sense" people that sometimes things are worse when you just go along with what's happening and criticize people who step outside of the zone of legality (which exists to facilitate the smooth functioning of the institution which is committing mass murder in Iraq).

WHAT IS AT STAKE IS MORE THAN YOUR TEMPORARY INCONVENIENCE, and if you refuse to see that then you deserve to feel terrorized and really be inconvenienced.

But, but, but...

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 8:19am.

the threw newpaper boxes into the street!

Yeah, Let's Contextualize

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 9:26am.

WHAT IS AT STAKE IS MORE THAN YOUR TEMPORARY INCONVENIENCE, and if you refuse to see that then you deserve to feel terrorized and really be inconvenienced.

What a horrible thing to say. Nobody deserves to feel terrorized or be really inconvenienced, especially on purpose. You're a sad, angry person who needs anger management and counseling.

How do you shout poor Iraqi children who don't deserve the terrorism & inconvenience but say the citizens of your own town deserve it?

What he's saying is

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 9:33am.

he doesn't have much sympathy for you. Should he? Should you have sympathy for someone with a face full of pepper spray? We can dance around our mutual "hypocracies" until we die. It is fruitless.

There's A Huge Difference

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 9:37am.

between saying I don't have much sympathy for you and you deserve to be terrorized and really inconvenienced.

That's like me saying, I really don't like you vs. You deserve to die.

Sad you can't see that Gug. And you support his statement we all deserve to be terrorized and really inconvenienced. I thought you had a deeper respect for both sides than that.

No Onry

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 9:49am.

I just understand what the fellow is saying. If I took him literally, I'd be as offended as you. But I don't.

I'm Going To Church Now

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 9:51am.

to pray. For a lot of things & people.

Thanks Onry.

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 10:10am.

I'm praying that we don't have a whole lot of people that are convinced that the war in Iraq is a Muslim movement to take over the world's culture.

Help me, I'm confused

Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 9:47pm.

Who, exactly, is "a sad, angry person who needs anger management and counseling"? There are a lot of candidates for that on this thread! It's kind of beside the point.

The more you people say and

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 10:25am.

The more you people say and do your thing, the less I care about anyone across the ocean. There's six billion people on this planet; I'm not going to decide that my immediate world doesn't count because something bad happened to a name and face I'll never know or hear of.

To say we're complicit is juvenile. If it's true we're complicit then you are too unless you personally go to these hotspots and either give medical aid, deliver food and clothes, or arm the civilians and be on the frontlines to face the tanks with them. But it's safer to stay in Olympia where all you'll have to fear is a little tear gas and you'll still have the freedom to say whatever you want about it.

Please give me a second grace. Please give me a second face. I've fallen far down, the first time around, now I just sit on the ground in your way.
Nick Drake

Whatever

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 12:22pm.

Who are YOU to decide what should be important to us? Go sit down in a street somewhere and get arrested.

Charlie, welcome

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 9:16am.

I'm assuming you're the same Charlie that wrote the LTE and is EG's family.

As you were questioned in The Olympian, how do you feel about the law breaking that goes on in the administration? How do you feel about a group of people, voted to govern for the masses that ignore their wishes? In my eyes, it's rather criminal behavior and should be treated the same as you have wished for the protestors.

USMC - to you I suggest, as you use the word "terror" think about a political party that invokes the term "9/11" at the drop of a hat. Think about the talk of mushroom clouds and viles of material claimed to be chemical weapons. Think about the threat that if they weren't voted into office, we'd be attacked again. There are many forms of terrorism. It need not be just blocking streets.

Once again I have to defend myself. SHAME ON YOU

Submitted by White Car on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 10:08am.

Should the fact that some feel we are guilty of mass murder give them the right to disobey the laws? I am not here to argue the point of who is guilty of what other than what transpired in front of me. If I was near your home and saw someone tossing garbage and dumpsters in your front yard, I would take their pictures and turn it over as evidence. You would most likely thank me. I bet, if my pictures were of police brutality, you would be shouting Hip Hip Hooray for us as well and want me to turn them over as evidence. However, since my pictures do not suit your agenda, I am accused of being complicit of mass murder. I am also being portrayed as angry because I was inconvenienced. Again, not true. I don’t condone violating the law, simple as that. You can protest to your hearts content; just do it within the boundaries of the law. Is that to much to ask???

Evidently

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 12:37pm.

it is too much ask when people feel as strongly as they do about this.

Which brings me to another question

Submitted by White Car on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 1:03pm.

If one has such strong beliefs that they are willing to put themselves in front of vehicles, throw trash bins, parts of retaining walls and violate civil disobedience laws, why don't they do it showing their faces? Never once when I disagreed with something as strongly as these young folks claim they do, did I hide behind a bandana to get my point across. The police weren't there, they can't say it was pepper spray fear. They were willing to disobey the law as long as they didn't get caught. My husband and I taking their photos with masks off angered them, they could be identified now. Maybe you will think before you pull something like that again, if you indeed want to get a point across.

You'll

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 1:14pm.

have to ask them, I wasn't there.

Rob

Submitted by White Car on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 1:28pm.

Sorry, didn't mean you, I meant they.

Pepper spray/tear gas

Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 9:51pm.

"Why don't they do it showing their faces?" The primary purpose of the bandannas is to protect them from pepper spray and tear gas.

reply

Submitted by a.future.with.n... on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 1:03pm.

Should the fact that some feel we are guilty of mass murder give them the right to disobey the laws?

YES.

Well Future

Submitted by White Car on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 1:23pm.

I hope to see you at one of the protests with a sign saying "You have a right to MY opinion and if you don't agree with me, I can't be held accountable for what I might do". Guess you want a get outta jail free card on the basis of two wrongs making a right. What really irks me here is, you have no idea how I really stand on the war issue. You have assumed that I take one side over the other because I shot photos of people breaking the law. Do you think my photos are of only the protesters? EG will have to decide what gets printed and what does not. But remember, one should not assume what one does not know.

White Car

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 3:00pm.

Will you adopt me? I'd be proud to have you for an Aunt! ;-)

Say there White Car

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 5:47pm.

I'm going to guess that "shame on you" was directed at me. Let me respond.

First of all, I have no shame in voicing my opinion on this blog and if you try to shame me, you are barking up the wrong tree. I don't really care who's aunt you might be, I don't appreciate that kind of condescending crap.

My agenda is that if we are going to make such a damned fuss over some people blocking the street and calling them "terrorists", let's take a good look at terrorism from the larger picture.

If someone dumps garbage on my yard, they are a vandal, not a terrorist.

Inflammatory rhetoric will help nothing in the cause, but I don't expect much out of someone that whips out "shame on you".

FYI - based on what I know, I don't think there is a big difference in our ages, so lets not play that card either.

Hey Larry

Submitted by White Car on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 9:06pm.

Sorry I touched a nerve, but I am entitled to an opinion just as much as you are. If you want to interpret it as condescending, then that is your prerogative. Also please get the facts straight, I never called anyone a terrorist. And I had no intentions in using an age card. You really should stop assuming. Not going to argue with you Larry. I stated my point, you can choose to respect that or not.

Yeah White Car....

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Mon, 11/19/2007 - 7:57am.

And if you want to deny an obviously condescending statement, that's your problem Intellectual honesty is tough to come by these days. Yeah, you did hit a nerve. We try to avoid such things on Olyblog. Maybe The Olympian is more your style.

The reason I brought up the age card is I've already heard the "terrified old lady" story. You don't sound so terrified to me. In fact you sound like you enjoy being part of the action.

OlyBlog.net

OlyBlog is devoted to citizen journalism, including hyperlocal news and discussion specifically about Olympia, Washington. If you care about this community and are tired of corporate media, then this is the place for you.

If you'd like to contribute, please register for an account. Here is a list of local news beats that need to be covered. You can post your news as a personal blog entry, and it will be reviewed (and possibly edited) for promotion to the front page. Once you've established a record of responsible blogging, you can become an autonomous user. You can also send news via email. All members of OlyBlog agree to abide by our comment and fair use policies. If you are frustrated about something said in a comment thread, go here.

Now playing at: