n/t

"A point of view is only a view from a point..." ~ Unknown

Yeah I stole the idea from him and other bloggers. People on this site are way smart. I'm just doing my best to make use of that smartness. Everyone who reads this should click on the link in the comment above if they haven't already!

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

How did the OPD violate rules of engagement?   

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

I have read your "review" and after evaluation, I find that one of the best adjectives to use to describe your thoughts would be delusional. Where do you get the idea that any collection of miscreants from Evergreen should be permitted to restrict law enforcement officers from performing their duty? If you or any other person obstructs a police officer from performing an arrest or performing any other duty as they and their supervisors see fit, then those officers are fully justified in using whatever force is required to instantly remove or disable the obstructions.

Those students that surrounded the Evergreen officer’s car are very lucky to escape without serious injury. If a group of 100 such miscreants surround my car and threaten me, I would, justifiably, be punching the accelerator and have my car moving rapidly. Those protesting in front of the Evergreen Officer’s car are lucky that they did not find themselves protesting from the undercarriage. When these characters engage in acts like that, they are playing with fire and eventually someone will be seriously and possible fatally injured.

The video of this incident clearly shows that the students did induce violence, and clearly did warrant a forceful response from the police. The police officers showed amazing restraint and were very lenient in their treatment of those that were surrounding the police car.

As far as the image of local law enforcement officers; you will find that most of the citizens of Thurston County have a very positive view of their local police. I believe that you will find that your view of the police as the cause of the violence is very much in the minority.

Jeff Brigham

"America’s greatest chapter is still to be written, for the best is yet to come."

President Ronald Reagan

 I have to agree with some of this.  Surround my vehicle and make it impossible to move I'm liable to ram forward and be legally justified.

Given current, accepted practices the cops were pretty restrained. 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

Would you consider it smart to arrest a black man who was breaking up a fight at a black power political rally? Dead Prez is political hiphop and he advocates between his songs which have to do with economic, peace, and justice issues. She arrested an innocent black man at a black political rally. 

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

You can't convince him, and he could google it himself if he cared to change his mind. 

Anyways, the more important parts of what I wrote seem to be ignored. The cops in the middle had been chilling for an hour peacefully, the crowd wasn't getting any bigger, people would chant for a bit, get bored, sit on the hill and smoke a cigarette, then someone from the hill would go down and chant a bit more. The cops who came in attacked first from the outside forcing there way to the chilling Thurston County officers, they acted forcefully to get into the spot. This was after the officers in the middle had agreed to let him go. I was there, the police and students were talking to each other in that circle. Nobody was getting aggressive. The cops were cool, the people were doing their thing. The lady was getting his info and telling him an ear full I'm sure about how he will be cooperated and he is lucky this time etc... Then unbeknownst to the officers there, the bad boys roll up and start shoving people to get into the middle, (for what reason, who knows?) then pepper spray is everywhere, guys tie bandannas on their face dump the trash can over and throw trash at the cops, I think I remember one glass bottle thrown and tons of plastic ones. Everyone changed their tone. They started chanting things like 'leave us alone,' 'go away,' kids held up peace signs and attempted to stop the angry people but then the police pepper sprayed several more times. I also saw no effort by the cops to chill people down. I remember when one cop car got stuck in the mud I asked if I could help them push it out, and they told me to go away. 

I mean in a hostage situation with some guy with a bomb is threatening to blow up a bank you wouldn't have the negotiator talk to him for an hour and finally get him to the point where he's gonna turn himself in and have your back up unit run in shooting without you knowing it right? That would be stupid, and I think the heros who ran in would get in trouble for failure to follow protocol, using stupid force (not excessive, I should say the cops used stupid force), and would be fired for having the building blow up and the hostages die right?

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

I think it is long past time that Olympia had a citizen review board.  We can argue forever about whether the OPD used excessive force at the Port or in this instance, we can file complaints at the City, I think it comes to nothing with the current oversight system. 

From the ACLU website: 

Civilian Review Board Sample Model

• Introduction
• An Effective Model
• Functions of the Civilian Review Board
• Requirement for an Effective Board
• References

Introduction

It is appropriate that in conferring the police with powers, particularly the power to use lethal force, that civilians have a role in determining the standards by which they are policed. And an independent civilian review board affords citizens with an opportunity to engage in that role by providing a venue through which to air grievances, express concerns, and voice recommendations.

It is important to note that for a civilian review board to be truly effective, it must be independent. That is, it must conduct an independent investigation of complaints and not a civilian review of an investigation conducted by a police internal affairs bureau, which would result in the illusion of oversight without the reality. The integrity of the civilian review board will derive from direct civilian review of police conduct, not a civilian review of police review.

Thanks for bringing the review board idea up again, wildleaf.  

If I was an Oly PD I don't think I would want citizens from this area reviewing my actions.  Just look at some of the comments.  I would welcome citizens from outside of Thurston County to review my actions.

I hope this subject goes away with those responsible for acts of vandalism or whatever else being held accountable. 

Sometimes I wonder why I ever get sucked into some of these arguments, but I guess it's the same as waiting for the car wreck.  Moniz threatended everyone else on the road the day he chose to be a felon.  After numerous opportunities to 'stop' and take his medicine he again made a stupid choice. 

I also find it amazing that there are so many experts (on both sides) who claim to know what OPD's standards are and how they should be applied in every situation.  Come on people, we are talking about humans not robots.  They assess the situation and use the best possible judgment based on training and procedures.  It sure is nice to sit on the sidelines and throw stones (no pun intended) and tell everyone that the cops did something wrong.  If I was that officer I would have felt a little threatened due to the environment.  And no I'm not talking about race, I'm talking about the general attitude of the vocal anti-government, cop, whatever attitude that runs around TESC. 

The fact that there are people who are condoning the surrounding of a police officer who is trying to do her job is beyond me.  Call it for what it is, disrespect for the person, position and for the rest of us.  Could this riot been avoided?  Heck yes.  But I don't blame the cops for this.  They reacted to a situation and I want to believe they had the best of intentions. 

As near as I can tell, the kinds of actions that S6 and other are describing (batons, non-lethals) are not allowed in large PDs (e.g., LAPD), as evidenced by the following video and report.

Here are a few excerpts from the report that came out after excessive use of force by the LAPD

Use of Force

By the time the events ended in MacArthur Park, more than 100 uses of the baton and 146 less-lethal impact munitions had been deployed. It appeared that some of the officers and supervisors in MacArthur Park believed that, contrary to Department policy, baton strikes could be used to compel a person to disperse, even if they were merely standing in front of the officers, failing to respond to direction. Further, non-target and target specific less-lethal impact munitions, were deployed absent the intent to affect an arrest - in contrast to the law which states that use of force should be deployed as a precursor to an arrest.

Treatment of the Media

The treatment of some members of the media raised questions about the training, discipline and understanding of the role of the media on the part of some of the officers in MacArthur Park that day. Some officers did not adhere to the guidelines required pursuant to agreements between the Department and the media, including those outlined in the Crespo v. City of Los Angeles settlement, arising out of the 2000 Democratic National Convention. For example, in the move to clear the park, some officers pushed and struck some members of the media to move them from the area, rather than allowing the media to move safely into a designated media viewing area.

Crowd Dispersal Strategies

The declaration of an unlawful assembly should be resorted to only when there are no other reasonable alternatives. The decision to declare an unlawful assembly and disperse the crowd on May Day 2007 appeared to be made quickly, without consideration of the impact a dispersal order would have on those exercising their First Amendment rights. As a result, errors were made, including the fact that Captain Egan, Commander Gray, and/or Deputy Chief Carter, apparently did not consider isolating and arresting those engaging in unlawful conduct; a complete dispersal order was not given in either English or Spanish; the dispersal order was not specific to the location of the unlawful conduct; and the tactics employed to move the unlawful individuals were flawed, in that a small group of unlawful individuals were ultimately pushed into a large group of peaceful, law-abiding individuals.

Source

I think people want responsibility to fall on those responsible and I think people want accountability and justice. The public is only allowed to have justice if it is blind, and if blind justice points its finger at the police then the public will respect that. I'm raising awareness of this issue so I don't see this happen again. I think the public wants that more than they want to see some kids thrown in jail. If they end up being able to make a case against the crowd involved so be it, but I doubt they would have a very good one at this point.

The media of course has been very helpful at making the public view things a certain way. Why didn't the media dig harder for video and properly analyze it before jumping to conclusions. 

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

"thinks your "account" of the event is so deep in left field that the stadium lights no longer hit you. The crowd is incredibly lucky that the police had the restraint that they did, and the cops are lucky that the crowd didn't turn worse. The crowd was wrong, end of the story for me....and others I might add.

"so deep in left field that the stadium lights no longer hit you." I blew coffee all over the monitor with that one Norm,,,,so true!!

No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral environmental benefits.  Climate change provides the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world ever.Christine Stewart (the real basis for the AGW scare)

I would like to point out that 100% of the major media is unabashably pro police on this issue. I would like you to go onto the Olympian and read their three hundred comments per article about the riot and see how absolutely ogre like those comments are towards students. Then read through this blogs comments and see how absolutely repetitive and mindless the most reactive three or four people are who absolutely adore cops. I could do a count of the pro and con comments but no one would care and we already know the answer to that. Of course, I consider these articles are not journalism they try to make points but I keep them fair, accurate and based in facts. That is more than I can say for the people who respond negatively to these posts.

Also lovelife, we are not a community with the police. I wish we were, I really do, but we are not. They are usually encouraged to not live in the area they work. They also have the ability to shoot me and arrest me. They therefore have a power that sets them apart. That is just how it is. I will say that cops are humans and need to be treated as such.

Also I would like to contend that while you might not have much knowledge of events don't claim that we don't. I was there from beginning to end. That doesn't mean I witnessed everything or understood what was going on exactly all the time while I was there. However I have read every single article in the Olympian, every single e-mail on the evergreen listserve, most olyblog articles and comments, most outside media coverage, have talked to many people involved or who were there, have been to five meetings, watched all three videos many times several times in slow motion, have read and critiqued all of the officer reports and have written pages and pages about it that has been critiqued and responded on olyblog and e-mail lists. I'm not trying to toot my own horn or anything, but I think that you could say that I am an expert on this particular riot.  

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com