User login

Who's online

There are currently 7 users and 53 guests online.

Online users

  • Dylan Carlson
  • FRESH
  • FRESH
  • agathafrye
  • einmaleins
  • Spareshoes
  • oldtimeydave

Support OlyBlog

OlyBlog is run by volunteers who care about Olympia. If you like what we're doing, make a donation:

OlyBlog is powered by:

Who's new

  • Spareshoes
  • Sara Ballard
  • GooseKaler
  • LongRider
  • non illegitimi ...

    Creative Commons License
 
Submitted by Janice Arnold on Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:21pm.

I am new to this blogging - and probably won't spend much more time in this realm. However I just feel the need to comment on something in your testimony that struck a very sore spot for me personally.

"..... most are not here tonight. Why? Because they are at home with their families struggling to balance the demands of busy lives in the twenty-first century. I am here to testify that there are many, many citizens of Olympia that do not have the luxury of time to show up simply to support the normal course of progress."

1) Luxury of time?

In my personal case nothing could be further from the truth. I don't just balance- I also juggle. I'm a parent, have more than one business, help care for my aging parents, and travel for these various roles extensively.

I really didn't have the "luxury of time" to testify at the planning commission meeting in June, but I could not sit by without speaking my mind on such a critical issue. It was there that I saw how many other people thought a spot rezone on the isthmus was a bad idea. It opened my eyes even wider. Did I have time to get involved further? No. Did the other 4 women who I joined to form 20/20 Vision Olympia have the time? No...but out of mutual concern for our city, state and it's future, we choose to make it a priority.

The choice to take time away from our normal busy lives has come with incredible sacrifice. Hence, I could not sit by and be incorrectly characterized without setting the record straight. In my opinion the reason so FEW people showed up to  support a rezone speaks loud and clear. They made a choice for themselves, and they set their priorities just like the rest of us.

2) Normal course of progress?

Spot rezones DO NOT equal progress.

This not an emotional response. It is simply fact. Regardless of your position - before you comment - watch for yourself. There are 4 short segments from an independent documentary "Back From The Brink- Saving America's Cities by Design" (by the American Architectural Foundation) demonstrating how 3 other cities (with waterfronts) solved similar (and sometimes worse) problems.

www.YouTube.com/2020visionolympia

History, education, and research shows us here and across the country that progress and revitalization is NOT about spot rezoning. Progress is working together- everyone on all sides of the issue.

»

Hello Janice

Glad to see you found OlyBlog. This is a response to Peter's "Apology" (and City Council Public Hearing Testimony), I gather.




»

As I said in my post

As I said in my post, it is well known that people in favor of or indifferent to development don't show up at public hearings to the same extent that those in opposition to development do. In the face of the "overwhelming majority" mantra continuously refrained by the opposition at the hearing, this argument needed to be clearly and publicly heard by the Council. It was hard to say, but I stand firmly by it. I meant to imply no personal negativity towards those in attendance.

Your argument about spot zoning is a good one and also one that our OLY 2012 position paper does not address. So, here is my response:

1. Olympia MUST move forward. No more waiting!

2. Over the past decade-plus the isthmus has been studied thoroughly by outside planning consultants, city planners, city staff, and the planning commission - and "charetted" in the process as well. Housing has always been the recommendation by these groups. We've just never had a city council with the leadership to do what is right.

3. No matter how much more charetteing you do, the isthmus is always going to come down to one simple decision: housing or no housing. In this sense, a big comprehensive downtown charette process isn't going to tell us much more about what to do with this piece of land than what we have learned from our past studies and what we have learned through this current rezone process.

4. The comp plan is going to be thoroughly revamped in 2011. Before that time, the state's Growth Management Act is going to be drastically altered because of Senate Bill 6580, which addresses mitigation of greenhouse gas emissions through land use and transportation planning processes. Major state and federal funds for infrastructure will flow into communities who have comp plans in compliance with the new standards. So, with regard to an Olympia charette, it is prudent to wait until the higher level planning is done first so we know what we have to work with.


»

Patience is a virtue

I don't recall the isthus specifically being studied with housing being the answer. Few people would disagree that downtown needs housing. But I would like to know more about these many thorough studies of the isthmus. Olympia doesn't need to rush into a bad decision that we would repent at leisure.
»

The virtue of patience has diminishing returns

The virtue of patience has diminishing returns if you never do anything. It has been nearly two decades since the GMA was passed by our state legislators yet barely a single unit of market-rate housing has been built in the core.  Meanwhile, cities throughout the region have made major strides to make themselves denser and less sprawl-dependent.  We citizens of Olympia love to wave our earth flags high, but have accomplished embarassingly little on the development front to reduce our carbon footprint.

The isthmus has been studied dozens of times before now, but several times within the last decade including in 2002 by our very own planning commission who recommended it be rezoned for taller heights to accommodate housing.  I was told by a high-ranking locall- elected official just this afternoon that there was a charette during this time that was attended by the public who turned out "in the hundreds". 

Prior to that, in 2000, it was studied by Pyatok and Associates, a planning firm hired by the City of Olympia.  The following is an excerpt from their report titled, Percival Landing Area Housing Study:

"The high level of amenity within a compact area creates a situation where a true mixed-use, pedestrian-oriented downtown, where people live, work, shop and recreate on a 24-hour basis, sppears to be achievable....The missing element is market-rate housing....The areas surrounding the downtown commercial core, currently developed to generally low intensity provide the opportunity for redevlopment into primarily residential districts."

It then went on to identify four distinct zones listed in order of "highest ammenity level" (which is another way of saying suitablity for housing), the first of which was the area between what is now Les Schwab and The Farmers' Market.  The second area of the four was the following described area:

"The area between State and Fifth Avenues from Columbia Street West to the bridges and the blocks south of 5th avnue betwwen Columbia and Water Streets. This district has the best waterfront views and is immediately adjacent to a grocery store."

»

A question for Peter..

Would you agree that a higher condo unit density than the the 141 housing units proposed by the developer would better comply with the Growth Management Act?
»

Peter??

Where did Peter run off to?

I want to hear your opinion on my idea for more housing downtown..

Here, ill ask you again:

Does Oly 2012 agree that a higher condo unit density than the 141 housing units proposed by Triway Enterprises would better comply with the Growth Management Act?

 

»

Hey Now...

I know that I sometimes give off the impression that I am a full-time blogger, but I do have a few other responsibilities!

I do not know the specific answer to your question.  I think rezoning the isthmus and the proposed project complies now with the Comp Plan (which itself complies with the GMA).  Would increasing the density further from what is being proposed comply with GMA?  I don't know. 

What are your thoughts?  Take your time... 

»

lets deepen the discussion..

Lets agree with the City of Olympia: that the missing element is market-rate housing, specifically at the waterfront location now in question, and that this district has the best waterfront views and is immediately adjacent to a grocery store,and other ammenities.

Would Oly 2012 also agree because this particular location already offers the highest ammenity level, any housing built at this location would have unique advantages? 

»

Great!

I am all for deepening the discussion. What do you mean by "unique advantages"?
»

Here, ill clarify..

Lets agree with the City of Olympia: that the missing element is market-rate housing, specifically at the waterfront location now in question, and that this district has the best waterfront views and is immediately adjacent to a grocery store,and other ammenities.

Would Oly 2012 also agree that because this particular location already offers the highest ammenity level, any housing built at this location would have unique advantages worthy of formal consideration & deliberation by the Olympia City Council?

»

???

Not sure why more highly valued property deserves more formal consideration by the council, unless you are talking about the social value of the airspace beyond three stories. Can you be more specific.
»

Please let Peter answer this question..

Please let Peter answer this question..
»

I don't understand what you are asking...

Not avoiding the question, but can't offer an intelligent response until you can phrase your question in a way that calls for more of a response than simply agreeing or disagreeing with what is already happening (discussing the concept of housing on the isthmus by the city council).
»

ok then..

Does housing on the isthmus offer unique advantages worthy of formal consideration & deliberation by the Olympia City Council?
»

I don't understand you line of questioning

Of course Peter thinks it does, he's made that abundantly clear over the last few months. What more do you need? Is this a trap of some sort?

Watch out Peter, he might be setting you up.

»

Do you still beat your wife?

Come on, just get to your point and spare us this painful Socratic theater.
»

please let Peter answer this question..

i don't really know what you people do around here, im just asking Peter a question. back off..
»

This isn't the place to have a private conversation

Perhaps you should PM Peter if it troubles you to read comments about your vague line of questioning. But I'll lay off.
»

thanks for that Guglielmo..

Peter?
»

"You People?"

Ross Perot got an earfull for that boner.
»

Maybe by "unique advantages" he means "payoff"?

(just a thought)
»

Response to Peter's arguments

I won't talk here about who did or didn't show up at the hearing. We've discussed that elsewhere.

Instead, I would like to respond to Peter's points about the rezone itself.

1. "Olympia must move forward": This is not really an argument, more of a slogan. Suffice to say that some people see the rezone as moving backward.

2. "The isthmus has been studied thoroughly": I believe this is only half-correct. There have been various studies of downtown, and in particular of downtown housing, and often these studies have included the area of the isthmus. Some other studies related to Heritage Park, Percival Landing, and the fountain block have focused on the isthmus, but only for park purposes obviously. But there has never been a study focusing directly on housing on the isthmus itself. More importantly, there has never been a thorough comparison of housing versus other potential land uses (such as a park) on the isthmus (perhaps comparable to the comparison studies now underway regarding Capitol Lake).

Personally, I was involved as both a planning commissioner and city councilmember in the biggest downtown housing study of the past couple of decades (the stuff in 2000 and 2002 that Peter refers to above). As Peter notes, one of the conclusions of that study was that the most financially attractive places for developers thinking of building housing in downtown are the areas with the best views -- that is, the isthmus and the blocks along Water and Columbia streets. That still makes sense to me; in fact, Tri Vo is proving it with his proposal. However, that is not the same as saying those are the best places for housing from the perspective of the entire community, nor that we must put housing there if we have other reasons why we prefer not to. (And by the way, one downtown housing project not near the water is under construction right now, and a second downtown housing project not near the water is going through permitting right now.)

Based on that study, the planning commission (including me) and staff recommended raising heights on the isthmus and the other streets (as well as making numerous other changes to the development code to enourage housing in all of downtown). Yes, you guessed it: this was the study that led to the earlier big debate over building heights on the isthmus.

The mistake we made then was focusing solely on what it would take to get housing, and overlooking all the interrelated issues. In effect, we assumed that housing was the goal and the only question was how to get there, instead of considering other concurrent community goals. (Sound familiar?) The council heard much opposition to raising heights on the isthmus, but very little to raising heights on Water and Columbia streets (and none to the other assorted code changes). So the council (including me by now) followed the advice from the public, and passed it that way.

3. "One simple decision: housing or no housing": I strongly disagree. Even if we declare that it will be all-housing all-the-time on the isthmus, we must at minimum still decide on the height of the buildings holding the housing, the design standards of those buildings, whether it must be housing-only or mixed-use, how to deal with parking for residents, and whether it will be market-rate or subsidized low-income housing or a mixture. In fact, we're actually debating one of those issues now. The zoning on the isthmus already allows housing; Tri Vo could start building housing tomorrow. This debate literally is over whether we want to raise building heights; the idea that allowing higher buildings would better promote housing is an argument used to support the proposed rezone, not the proposal itself.

Also, let's explicitly call out the other possibilities: park, commercial, dig it up and let Budd Inlet back in, whatever. It is not conducive to good debate nor clear thinking to treat the alternatives as merely "not the preferred alternative".

4. "The comp plan is going to be thoroughly revamped in 2011": Comp plans are updated every year and thoroughly revamped every few years, to both update our vision for the community and stay in compliance with state standards. That does not mean we have to make this particular rezone nor postpone a charette if we want one.

I believe the city council repeated the error we made about six years ago: they focused only on what they thought would promote housing, rather than on what the community's overall vision is for the isthmus.  They should have learned from our example. And this council actually made it worse by appearing to act solely at the behest of a developer.

I further believe that the only way this issue will ever really be settled is to take a step back, and have a conversation that starts not with a specific proposal but by asking "what does this community want on the isthmus?"

»

Mathew made my point about number 3.

As I've said before, I don't have a problem with developing the "isthmus." My greatest concern is that the planned development does not complement our downtown. It would complement Kirkland or Northwest Landing, but not downtown Olympia. So we'll just end up with two downtowns: Old Downtown and The Re Zone.

Then there's my pet peeve. There is nothing wrong with diminishing returns. It only means that the returns from an additional unit of effort are smaller then the previous unit of effort. Eventually, because of opportunity costs, an additional unit of effort will deliver negative returns. That's when you need to stop. Not sure where that point is in the rezoning debate.

»

"planned development does not complement our downtown"

^ Agreed! It'll be another "island"... totally disconnected from its surroundings. JUST LIKE THE MALL.
»

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

OlyBlog.net

OlyBlog is devoted to citizen journalism, including hyperlocal news and discussion specifically about Olympia, Washington. If you care about this community and are tired of corporate media, then this is the place for you.

If you'd like to contribute, please register for an account. Here is a list of local news beats that need to be covered. You can post your news as a personal blog entry, and it will be reviewed (and possibly edited) for promotion to the front page. Once you've established a record of responsible blogging, you can become an autonomous user. You can also send news via email. All members of OlyBlog agree to abide by our comment and fair use policies. If you are frustrated about something said in a comment thread, go here.

Now playing at:

Isthmus 2008

Get Firefox!


More Flickr photos tagged with "olympia" and "washington"

OlyBlog is a site for news and discussion about Olympia, Washington.
free hit counter