so I'm missing the bigger context.

Given that the discussion about condo's lately has been primarily about Triway's project, I'd completely disagree with the notion that condo's for the rich will benefit the poor.

In 2002, during spring ArtsWalk/Procession, I went out on the streets downtown to collect signatures against the proposed camping/car-camping/panhandling laws.  There was an event on at the Washington Center, with hundreds of people in a line wrapping halfway around the block.  They were mostly wearing suits and fine clothing.  I was unable to get a single signature out of all these people.

When I walked down to 4th, where rock bands were playing on the sidewalk and everyone wore jeans and t-shirts, I got two lines (one for the clipboard in each hand) running three and four people deep.  We collected about 1,100 signatures that weekend, nearly all along 4th Ave.

The rich of today's society don't want the poor around.  I can promise you, with almost perfect certainty, that the first thing the Larida tenants will do after moving in will be to call for anti-homeless ordinances.  And you'd be crazy to think that they won't have security patrolling the block to sweep out "undesireables".

The rich are not good for the poor.  They don't like the poor. 

The Canaanite's Call

It seems proximity to the rich is less important than proximity to the things rich people usually enjoy. Can't we have parks and libraries and museums without the Paris Hiltons of the world?

It's fair to observe that their are cultural differences between the rich and the poor but unfair to assume that the culture of the rich will somehow "civilize" the culture of the poor. 

in conclusion, I agree wholeheartedly with Phil. 

...so, is the thought that having more wealth centered in Olympia will not support more local economic activities? (trickle down) ...I'm personally very skeptical of trickle-down theories, but I try to keep an open mind =)

I'm pretty sure that having more folks with disposable income would buoy the local economic scene, and leaving the proposed tax breaks for the developer(s) aside, the municipal coffers would see an increase in revenue from just the simple use of City utilities...

...the problem becomes one of responsibility for investment in infrastructure, as munis rarely have the ca$h on hand for big upgrades (like water systems), and developers do, so...

Looking at the staggering costs associated with public works, one as to wonder if the smart move is to piggyback infrastructure improvements to private development, with the *hope* that all will benefit from infrastructure improvements.

Looking at past moves (like LOTT), I'm skeptical of the quality of non-commercial  endeavors, so I'll be watching with curiosity and we'll be discussing this at length at tonight's ENA meeting.

... you have to have read Kunstler's books to get his bigger message. Or have lived in Europe, might help too.

Being angry and yelling at the "rich" doesn't do any good and certainly doesn't help your case.

Do you have the right to "own" downtown? What Kunstler is proposing is, that if people live closer together and actually connect as a community (and community in that: sharing, knowing each others names etc., kind of way) perspectives will change and classes will mend together and disapear.

The whole box/class thinking absolutely astonished me, coming over to the US.

And more so, the comfort we find in defining ourselves to fit into a box.

I refuse to let myself get put into one and don't put people around me into those either.

And you should too! It's stupid. Stop it!

mathias

einmaleins 

is one reading of the social dynamics from 100 years ago. I'm not sure those dynamics are in play in contemporary America. A great exploration of current self-segregation of American society can be found in The big sort : why the clustering of like-minded America is tearing us apart / Bill Bishop with Robert G. Cushing.New York : Houghton Mifflin, 2008. A synopsis can be found here.

As to the recent history of Olympia, contact between the business class, as voiced by the Olympia Downtown Association, and the down and out has resulted in the Pedestrian Interference Ordinance and the election of a city council member who so far is best known for shrieking 'baby raper' at a council meeting addressing the poor community. Further evidence for my assertion can be found daily in the Olympian comments and letters to the editor sections.

I want to believe in Kunstler's feel good melting pot tale. It is the right and moral way for this country to conduct itself. Sadly my extensive reading of history says it just ain't so. When there isn't a credible enemy without, there is always one to be found within.

To Laurian: Yes.

I'd rather see something oriented to physical and mental health than a baseball park...several of the communities I've lived in have had free rec centers with jogging tracks, weight systems, and other forms of exercise equipment. Students and their parents, from all walks of life, often used them as well as low-income people. I'm tired of sitting on my can watching other people move for entertainment. I want to move myself while chatting with a friend, perhaps even someone of a different economic bracket.

I've said before that I think that shared housing would be a great way to address the class segregation that takes place. Also, medical services available to all rather than services for the haves with the have nots going to a separate clinic. I've had medical care in clinics that serve mixed populations and segregated and those that serve mixed populations are better equipped with better trained people so that the medical care is better.

I don't have a problem with the idea that the poor can benefit from closer proximity with the rich. The idea that the rich are of better quality because they are rich doesn't ring true, but many people are successful because they've developed good habits and healthy lifestyles...and these habits would "rub off" on those who haven't been exposed to these good habits. I've lived in the homes of people of upper middle class and have been objectified and taken advantage of, but I've also been treated very kindly by others who also set excellent examples of how to achieve in ways that interested me. Those who would be attracted to a project of mixed populations (perhaps with a tax break?) would most likely be those who would demonstrate compassion as well as set an example of developing good habits for achievement.

This is not to say there is only one type of achievement, I don't believe that at all. Measuring success is a personal thing and there are many ways to be successful.

Don't eat meat, ride a bike...that's how you can brake global warming, the head of the United Nation's Nobel Prize-winning scientific panel on climate change said...