I agree that funding for the school needs to be reviewed.  There are great programs and great professors.  There is a place for the school in our state.  I don't believe it should be a public college, though.

I missed the program but can only guess that he compared TESC to PLU, UPS, SU, Whitman, Gonzaga, Whitworth.  Of the schools mentioned, only TESC is a public college.

This anti-TESC rhetoric is not only tired, but in reality is a waste of the perpetrators time. TESC isn't going to lose it's funding no matter how hard you click your heels together and wish for it, Dorothy -er- Dori. Get over it, and yourself, and maybe focus on talking about things in a way that solves problems and doesn't stir resentment, breed contempt, or perpetuate divides among people.

TESC isn't going anywhere.

...the net positive for Olympia, Washington State, and the country is huge, a few broken windows notwithstanding. The number of "old-growth greeners" that have filtered into state gov't, started their own businesses, or create art in Olympia, contributing to the area in incalculable ways, is really enormous. Anyone who would like to imagine Olympia without Evergreen, just cogitate on the likes of Bremerton for a minute. That should be enough to make any clear-thinking individual abruptly embrace this unique institution with both arms. And, as a public good, it is absolutely appropriate that it be funded with public money.

But I am Just Another Voice

defund leads to destroy?

I don't think so, but a little pragmatism would not hurt...like not expecting each and every activist event in Oly to be non-violent (even if the event supporters say it won't be), and maybe just being there to make sure-

Pragmatism, preparedness, and peaceful process under the rule of law (that is what I "signed up for" by choosing to be a US citizen when I got old enough to make a choice).

Not anarchy.

Not domestic terrorism.

...and yes (last but not least), "Not an endless, global war on terror".

>I'm feeling a bit short-changed on social capital lately...so say, can I borrow a buck Mr. Bush?<

Right wingers like DM fan the hatred and target it at a place like TESC. They have the plausible deniability routine down to a T. The folks who listen to DM take the step from defunding (which is not going to happen, there is no political will for it, it is not a reasonable suggestion) to talking about destruction and mayhem (easier to accomplish than defunding, all it takes is a few people in the throes of some kind of violent political delusion) which could happen.

Heard the same kind of talk on the blogs when I was a kid in the 60's (we called them coffee shops then). I lived in a nice southern town that had a well-segregated latino work force on the south side of town, a relatively small number of negroes who knew their place.

Especially after Martin Luther King Jr. came out against the Vietnam War in 1967 (late, imho) and he was blasted by the media, essentially called a communist sympathizer, etc., the talk about Martin at the more conservative coffee clubs was along the lines that "someone is going to give him the ticket to the promised land" and "there's a 30 caliber solution to that problem." Of course none of the people saying these awful things had any intention to carry out these criminal acts, it's just harmless talk, but nobody would be surprised if it happened, right?

Like today, back in those days, American kids were getting paid to kill brown folks and like today, the body count (which we no longer do) indicated we were winning what was an unwinnable war. Like today, the demonization, the will to use force, the hubris to think that we knew who ought to be sent to an appointment with their maker was running strong.

The Kent State tragedy occurred right on time as young american troops opened up on young american college students. You want to see that sort of thing again? Would it surprise you?

This is what Dori stirs up with his ideological rants against a really wonderful little liberal arts college here in Olympia. Of course, he doesn't mean to stir up real violence, does he? No, but it's no surprise when folks who think Dori's rants make sense start making the natural leap from the impossibility of defunding a college like TESC to imagining the possibility of a violent attack on the school.

There is a brutal efficiency to the whole rightwing force agenda that sickens me. Mother's Day is on us and many of us may be out to engage in a demonstration of our commitment to peace and peaceful means. Others of us may be planning direct action. Some folks may have a stupid attack and throw a trash can in the road, or throw a rock through a window. Oh, great, what did that accomplish?  Sweep up the glass, pick up the trash and let's get on with it, shall we?  

But really, how do we get from a few stupid broken windows to talking about hatred of TESC, a wonderful college, and speculating that bombing the college would not surprise? Even if my kids were not there, I think this would really bother me.

And of course, Dori and Norm are not bad guys, they can both play the "aw shucks, I am just a farm boy" routine well, and there is plausible deniability and no link between their comments and anything that might befall TESC... just as there is no link between rock-throwing kids and TESC... even though so many rightwingers want to create that link and may want to exploit it with a brutal efficiency on the ammonium nitrate scale. Now there's a rock.

But we never suggested that, did we? We just talked about it and said it wouldn't surprise us. Plausible deniability is not innocence.

One really sad thing about all this is that the motivation and progression of this kind of violence is largely not conscious. It's just deadly.

That is why we folks who stand in the street and break the law talk a lot about non-violence, about how our means have to fit with our goals.  

We weigh direct action and try to draw a line that is effective and does not violate peaceful principles. We catch a lot of flak for this process.  And it is pretty laughable  (a few broken windows causes great consternation in our groups) where a truckload of amonium nitrate would not surprise anybody in the discussions that take place among folks who think that TESC is some kind of liberal madrassa.

There really are some qualitative differences in these political discussions and one of them is taking responsibility for our words and the way they can play out.

I figured I would disemvowel myself ahead of time.

Rick- You don't know me, please don't pretend to. I'm going to leave it at that.

Mike- Villify me if you will, but what I posted would be my biggest concern with TESC. Why would I say it? Because it is a little bit scary, and I've had more than one person in my life bring up the possibility. You and Rick feel free to check the Olympian comments to see how much hatred is spewed about TESC, ask yourself how much hate Timothy McVeigh had to have, and then get back to me on that.

Merwyn and Chad- Thanks, it's nice to see some sanity retained in the thread.

and staff sadly is not unreasonable. The public comments made by fascists (again I use this word within a tight definition) over at the Olympian should cause concern and not just among us but law enforcement and TESC security.

Here at Olyblog it is de rigure to dismiss the Olympian comment section as a cesspool, and it is a cesspool, but whenever any Leftist issue arises in Olympia, be it the PMR, the Black Block, or supporting the work of B&R, there is at least one to a dozen deranged poster calling for violence that spans the continuum from spitting on Hippies to shooting Greeners, pilling their bodies in Red Square and setting them on fire. (I am not making this up)

Sometimes it's important to take people at their word. Tensions over politics in Olympiais getting out of control. We must think about this and take the possibility of violence seriously. Doing so is not 'macho posing', nor it is not paranoia. It's ugly, uncomfortable reality that should be taken seriously.

Thanks for p*ss*ng all over my thread guys! What gives?

...there was alot of stuff to unpack in this topic, but I guess I just get to get hijacked instead.

I'm tempted to say, "discuss it on your own thread"-

Gug did the only "work" here, describing the funding process-

Mike & Rick just took the opportunity to jump on Norm for his choice of expression...I guess nobody is perfect.