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Submitted by enpen on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 12:07pm.

I recently heard that Whirligig is closing and yesterday I noticed a "Going Out of Business" sign on the Chinese(?) wares store located next to Last Word Books on 4th. I remember in a past post on Otto's closure Mathias of einmaleins mentioned the feeling of downtown business owners that with the way things are going more and more businesses would follow.

So I guess this post is for two purposes: 1) To remind people that if they are planning on spending, to please try to keep the dollars local (instead of fast food, IKEA, Walmart, etc.) 2) Does anybody know where to get updated statistics on downtown vacancies? The only numbers I was ever able to find put the percentage North of 16% and called that an acceptable rate (despite the entirety of Pierce County being at 7%, for example). Also, average prices per square foot in downtown Olympia compared to neighboring downtown cores would be good numbers to have.

»

Shock and Thanks

Whriligig is closing.... noooooooo, that is shocking.

They just started.... Hang in there... Whirligig, find a way to survive..., please, we need you.

Secondly:

Thanks Enpen, for the friendly reminder. I also want to point out that shopping local shouldn't be your "civic duty", but it's actually better on so many levels.

First off, you will get a better product.

Try us, if you're in doubt. Local small businesses have better products and a better shopping experience. Local shop owners are dedicated to their business, financially and emotionally.

I don't just sell SIGG water bottles because they make business sense, I love them. I used them growing up hiking in the Alps all the time.

If we could only question "convenience" for a second, and what it means for our lives we wouldn't look at downtown Olympia as a place we need to get out of our way to go shopping.

But a place of diversity, of excitement.

Dang, it is sexy to shop in downtown - there I said it.

mathias 

PS: The Farmer's Market is opening in less than a month!!! 

»

Since I'm Going To Europe This Summer

I'm going to have to stop in & see about one of those SIGG water bottles for the trip huh?

I'll have to tap your brain!  I'll be in England, Paris (at the same time the International Terrorist Convention) is taking place, Swiss Alps and Italy!  Maybe you can offer some tourist tips & places to go, see & eat at?!

"A point of view is only a view from a point..." ~ Unknown

»

Oh, yeah...

...have lots of ideas. In fact I just planned a trip for another customer last week. mathias
»

Too bad...

Too bad we don't have any nice, quality, downtown housing to bring those dollars in...

 

Huh. That crap parking lot sure makes people want to come shop downtown since it's so easy to find a parking space. Right?

 

It's so pretty too.

»

wow, that's pretty negative and lame

There were 40 units of housing in the downtown district that were torn down about two months ago to make way for a future WSCU building. That certainly doesn't help the downtown cause. And our current civic policies encouraging teens (and their expendable income) to go to the mall instead of downtown (no skateboarding, loud music or loitering) does a lot of damage as parents and their money tend to follow the kids.

If you find it less than "pretty" maybe you could get involved with some of the beautification projects going on down there? There's a group working to beautify the public space around the artesian well, and another group that will be working to turn the alley ways into pedestrian thoroughfares. Perhaps channeling some of your energy into projects like those would be helpful.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

»

times are tough

so-called "consumer confidence" is down right now. in an election year with a war and a weak dollar, folks aren't as loose with the cash, especially when it comes to the non-essentials. in the long run downtown will be allright. if a business has a good idea and the market supports it, the idea will survive.
»

it's true

Folks aren't as loose with the cash. I'd just like to encourage more of the cash that is being spent to stay away from the big box stores and find its way into greater local circulation. The stronger we make our local economy the greater the likelihood of our region being able to weather the storms of national (and international) fiscal policy mismanagement.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

»

Tough time for business right now,

the slouching dollar, high fuel prices, etc. There are other issues with downtown as well. A tough demographic to appeal to is one, which is a small group to some extent. Also there is the lack of parking. And then the free parking is a problem too, both in type and availability.

It's really too bad we don't have a downtown that is vibrant. Bremerton went though this kind of change, and the downtown became a ghost town for a long time. It is coming around some now, but it has taken a long time to come back. When Silverdale became business friendly, Bremerton died. Olympia has been anti-business for a number of years, and Lacey is pro-business. Now in tough economic times Olympia will feel some pain.

A big part of Olympia's tax base comes from sales tax. So if you want parks, and bike lanes, nice roads, and even low income housing, it takes tax money. There has been talk of the Auto Mall moving to Lacey. Home Depot has considered shutting down the Fones Rd store. It will only take a few of those kinds of changes to really hurt this town financially.

Other towns in this state have brought their downtown around and really succeeded. But for that to happen, there needs to be big changes downtown, and I don't see that happening. It's far more likely good things will happen for downtown with the current City Council, but even they can't do miracles overnight.

"I de-clutch, you know." Juan Manuel Fangio when asked how he avoids flat-spotting his tires when he spins the car.

»

yes, but the point is...

... to find a way to combat that. To state the obvious is not helping. What we're trying to do here is finding a way of staying alive. Both as a region and as individual business owners. We can't just wait for someone being elected or the media telling us that we're out of a recession and everything is good again. We need entrepeneurs and visionaries to put their heart out and choose to swim against the current/put their head into the wind - whatever it takes.
»

The whole mind set of downtown

has to change. The current model is not business friendly. I doubt the powers that formed the current downtown will want to allow for change. And certainly it will not happen overnight. You are talking several years at an absolute minimum.

"I de-clutch, you know." Juan Manuel Fangio when asked how he avoids flat-spotting his tires when he spins the car.

»

The powers that formed the current downtown are still in there.

image
»

secret code

I see these kinds of comments often, it seems, and I feel like you folks are talking in a secret code. Really, what do you mean when you say "business friendly." Who are these mysterious "powers" downtown? If you are trying to say something, say it.
»

It really doesn't matter, and it's not worth getting into.

It all boils down to what Mathias said, people have to stop waiting around for government to do things. Our city council can't do a thing without us, and if they do they will fail in the end.

image
»

the market

listen, you either have something that people want to buy or you don't. it's really that simple.
»

Is it?

I guess advertising has no say on the matter. I mean, people can't be convinced of new desires or anything...you must be right...desire to buy things must be an a priori trait of human existence. Seriously, the incessant negative press around downtown Olympia combined with the piss-poor civic management regarding our youth provided by past city leaders casts a pretty dark cloud over downtown Olympia. There's a new youth center downtown, that's a good start. And Mathias' hard work on the First Fridays in downtown is an excellent thing for downtown. Now if we could only get the people who spend so much time bad mouthing downtown to invest a little positive energy into the place...

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

»

It's all in how you spin it baby...

A good ad campaign can do wonders, but it does help to have some solid ground to work with.

I sell things.  I sell lots of what I sell.  Some hate what I have, others love it, many are indifferent.  It's not the first two people I am interested in.  The haters won't buy and the lovers will throw themselves at me for it.  But the indifferent, unsure and curious... give me those people and I'll make believers out of enough of them, or at least convince them to give an honest shot at it...  

Give me a core, a bit of truth, something to work with and I'll sell anything I believe in.  I think downtown already has that, it just needs a good spin doctor.

After that, the consumers will make their likes/dislikes known and things will change accordingly. 

 

"si vis pacem, para bellum"


»

precisely!

Give me a core, a bit of truth, something to work with and I'll sell anything I believe in. I think downtown already has that, it just needs a good spin doctor.


As an Oly neophyte this is precisely what kills me about our city's management. I don't know if it's because I was raised around the "fine" arts or because of my poetry habit, but I find myself particularly sensitive to the presence of people consumed by process, and Olympia is filled with them. The concentration of artistic talent in this city, especially given its size, is off the charts. Last year I sent out several e-mails to our council members suggesting they start a citywide promotion for downtown Olympia with the help of its artists. I was told that they had an advertising campaign underway and that they had recently purchased flowers for the sidewalks.

Both Mathias and Rob are absolutely right, we as Olympians need to make our city incredible because the people who have been paid to do it seem to be firmly stuck inside of a box. This is what I want people to use OlyBlog for, to help us work together to maximize our talents and create a vibrant, unique and humane model for other communities to see.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

»

Ronnie: no, it's not that simple.

Are you a business owner? Do you know what people like? Before the iPod, no one wanted to buy an MP3 player. People don't know what they want, they are told what they want - that's what marketing does. You don't just sell products that people want, if you do that than you're already behind the curve of the next thing. Oh, wait now I'm giving away my business strategy... But in any way, that also applies to Downtown. It needs to be market in a way that it creates the "have-to-be-a-part-of" emotion and than it won't just survive, but strive!!
»

consumer

no, i am in fact a consumer by definition. but i have worked in media for the last ten years and i understand marketing in the terms you describe. for sake of arguement, no one knew what the ipod was at one time but i bet if you asked a music lover "would you like to carry 1,000 songs with you in the size of a credit card?" they would have said, "yes". so in my opinion the success of the ipod is due to the fact that it is a revolutionary idea that people wanted. now i understand you must "beat" the consumer into believing he or she needs something. we see that every day on the tv, in magazines, and billboards. my whole point in all of this is that downtown olympia is great because small business owners can take a chance to make something happen. i think what some people see as an anti-business attitude from the city is actually an anti-big business. local business will continue to thrive as long as they serve the community. as to the recent closings they have nothing to do with national trends but seem to me to point to mismanagement and a poor product.
»

well said!

But I want to point out, that behind every business is a person.

And it's always very easy to hide behind the invisibility cloak of a computer screen and criticize people's decisions.

But when you meet the people, and hear their ideas behind it, they might not be so far off.

Yes, it does take a good business plan, lots of cash, a great marketing strategy and most of all a great product.

But as a community it's always important to not forget that people put their heart out there and in good faith risked alot.

Where are the posts, saying that they are sorry for those businesses, or the people that offer support.

We all can point fingers at each other and say told-you-so, but that creates an hostile, unfriendly community and that might just be the thing that Rob calls "the powers" over Olympia.

 mathias

einmaleins

»

be careful

i like downtown because it is under-appreciated. i wouldn't shine too much light on it. next thing you know rents go up even more and you got a national chain on every corner. olympia's downtown will be utilized by those who appreciate it. those who want big box stores will go there despite anyones effort to change minds. and that's fine with me. let 'em.
»

it's up to us

If we as a community foster a value of a community then the big box stores would be antithetical to that value system and would fail. Taco Del Mar couldn't cut it in downtown Oly for precisely this reason. I am shocked Starbucks not only survives but seems to thrive here given the high density of specialty coffee roasting companies in one city. I don't think a city's status as a unique destination and affordability are mutually exclusive states, especially when both Seattle and Portland are so near by and accessible.

Edit: I was living in my Minneapolis past and accidentally wrote "Burrito Loco" instead of Taco Del Mar. Fortunately I live with somebody who helps me look not so dumb.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

»

agree

Me, too. I like the lack of national stores, the murals all over, the water fountain in a parking lot, more than one used book store, the cafes, etc. I'd hate to see it all replaced by slick glass and steel.
»

word

image
»

"Downtown needs a spark"The

"Downtown needs a spark"

The above quote is from John Diamant, owner of Jing Jing's Art and Antiques.  He and his wife will be closing their business at 207 4th Ave E. just as soon as they find a tenant.

I tend to agree with John.  Downtown is pretty bland.  Other than a handful of bars/music venues and the guitar shop, there's really nothing for me.

Two businesses to close doors [The Olympian, South Sound, 3/9/2008]

»

spark

A natural area just might be the spark that downtown needs to revitalize its image and improve its status as a destination.
»

I agree - it would be a

I agree - it would be a welcome attraction.  I forget who said it but the lots next to the bus station would be a great spot.
»

the more the better

This inspires another idea: Imagine the possibility of an overall and great ecological remediation effort - while still allowing downtown to function normally...

The original idea that I am proposing is for a natural area on the isthmus between Capitol Lake and Budd Inlet (the area from West of Water Street to the Bridges).

I would like to see the isthmus developed into an open natural area that would serve multiple purposes: ecological, recreational, educational, and also as a focal point to stimulate interest in downtown, etc..

»

It was me.

Thanks. I agree. The location would be great.

»

Thank you.

Thank you.

»

I like downtown the way it is

And I like the fact that a lot of people find nothing there to attract them. Let them go shop at Walmart or the mall. Let them eat at the Olive Garden. Downtown is not for everyone.
»

Hmmm

An exclusive downtown?  I'm thinking most here want an inclusive downtown.  Downtown SHOULD be for everybody.

»

I like the slightly "worn out"

 feel of downtown.  It's one reason I decided to stay here.  Downtown is comfortable, kinda like a well broken in shoe.  That said, I would love to see the empty spaces filled with eclectic and local shops.

 

"Pathetic humans! Prepare to write down the recipe!"--- Morbo

 

»

Absolutely

That said, I would love to see the empty spaces filled with eclectic and local shops.

In fact, this is one area I would really like to see our city/county move on. There's a now tried and true method of large chain stores demanding and receiving concessions for the supply of low wage jobs and low cost goods they're able to bring to communities. I would like to see a proactive movement on the part of our city to encourage local entrepreneurship in our downtown by providing concessions to people who live in Olympia and open a business in the downtown core. We don't need to help the rich get richer, we do need to help our community be more sustainable.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

»

Good idea

Personally I would like to see some steps taken to encourage local ownership of some of the empty buildings for sale downtown.  Maybe waive taxes for a year or something it if is occupied with a local business.

 

"Pathetic humans! Prepare to write down the recipe!"--- Morbo

 

»

seriously

There's a bunch of complaining about our city not fixing up downtown, or letting it go, but the +17% vacancy rates downtown are something the property owners are allowing. This is why I want to find a source for comparing average price per sq. foot in Olympia versus other downtown cores. I already know our vacancy rates are higher than anywhere in Pierce County, what I want to know is why. I'd also like to find out what percentage of the vacant spaces are owned by out of town businesses whose primary interest in Olympia is maximizing their profit.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

»

There are plenty of strip malls already

So as far as I'm concerned, there's no need to put in a Sharper Image and a Hooters or whatever it would take downtown to draw in a bunch of suburbanites looking for parking spots in their SUVs. Being inclusive isn't always good.
»

Downtown Needs a Natural Area

I am of the opinion that what the Downtown area of Olympia needs is a truly novel feature that would inspire civic pride and further participation, economic and otherwise, in the downtown sector.

Just imagine a beautiful open natural area juxtaposed with a dense, vibrant and colorful urban core. The contrast would be so awesome. Okay, imagine that the area to the West of Water street is an ecological, natural, open area... It would help further downtown as a destination. It would set an example of our dependence on wilderness; it would serve a recreational, as well as an educational function.

It would increase interest in the downtown sector, and subsequently it would increase business!

»

How about,

we daylight Moxlie Creek as a part of the new city hall project?

image
»

Daylighting Moxlie Creek

I think that is an excellent idea. I think a surface running Moxlie Creek would be a tremendous addition to any plan for City Hall.
»

Values driven consumerism

I feel that I have to go all the way to Seattle to find businesses that share my values. It would be great to have more animal friendly businesses in Oly. When I make a purchase at a business in which the owner implies a social justice/eco-friendly orientation only to find out later that they wear/sell leather or eat/serve meat, neither of which are sustainable...it makes me never want to go back.

You don't just have to lure people into your business, you have to appeal to them enough to draw them back in. There's a niche for animal rights in Oly, it's being called the next great social justice movement, and most businesses here are missing the boat.




---------
Nonviolence Includes Animals:
audio
"PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk's address to the International Nonviolence Conference in Bethlehem"
»

Hi,

This may be false, but I assume that by animal friendly you mean no animal products at all. There are many businesses in town that cater to all of the 'vores, for instance, Blue Lotus and Quality Burrito, but they serve meat as well. Certain restaurants, like The Reef, buy their meat locally from people who treat their cows much, much better than corporate ranches do. For clarity, can you provide a definition of what the term animal friendly means to you?

image
»

A noble goal

 I know I do a lot of the same thing myself although with different standards.  However I am curious if the market exists for what you are seeking?  It takes a lot of time and money to operate a business, and for one to operate at the extreme you as a consumer demand, I am not sure there are enough people in this town to make such a business sustainable.  That is why you have to go to Seattle.  More people.

 

 

"si vis pacem, para bellum"


»

I don't think that the

I don't think that the number of people here has nearly as much to do with it as does the number of people dedicated to maintaining a high degree of openness to change toward a more compassionate and sustainable way of being and their willingness to be loyal to their values to the extent to attempt to influence their friends and neighbors to do the same :)




---------
Nonviolence Includes Animals:
audio
"PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk's address to the International Nonviolence Conference in Bethlehem"
»

Go rent a building then :-)

 I'll help you market it, if you open a business!

 

"si vis pacem, para bellum"


»

Thanks!!

I think I'm much too introverted to be an effective businessperson. Takes a very special set of skills and a people oriented personality. Don't get me wrong, I like people...I just am not as fond of interaction as an extrovert might be :)

Sunny Tree is vegetarian if you'd like to give them a try. Very values oriented, kind people.




---------
Nonviolence Includes Animals:
audio
"PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk's address to the International Nonviolence Conference in Bethlehem"
»

Where is Sunny Tree

 and will they throw me out if I come in packing as is per my custom and habit? 

 

"si vis pacem, para bellum"


»

Sunny Tree

Go up the west side hill on harrison, turn left to 131 Decatur...it's right behind the Sushi place. Their phone number is 943-9633 if you'd like to ask about their policies before making a trip.


---------
Nonviolence Includes Animals:
audio
"PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk's address to the International Nonviolence Conference in Bethlehem"
»

Not too far from home then...

 Thanks!  I may wander that way this weekend (Monday and Tuesday for me...)

 

"si vis pacem, para bellum"


»

Good Exercise...

Nice invigorating walk up the hill. I like to buy their dried wakame seaweed and put it in veggie broth made from organic cubes. Add garlic, ginger, brown rice or noodles. Tasty and easy.


---------
Nonviolence Includes Animals:
audio
"PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk's address to the International Nonviolence Conference in Bethlehem"
»

You BUY seaweed?

I'm confused.  :-p  I have some on the bottom of Libertarian you are welcome to harvest whenever you want..  :-)  I harvested some seaweed once and dried it.  It's tasty stuff.  Best way I have ever found to get gobs of the stuff is to put down your anchor late at night after a long sail, and then have to break it up real early to catch the outgoing tide...  Oh, it helps if a strong wind is blowing :-)

Danforth anchors make excellent seaweed harvesting tools....

 

"si vis pacem, para bellum"


»

Animal Friendly Practices

By animal friendly I mean to not profit from the suffering of animals and even to offer products/services that allow for the avoidance of participating in practices that exploit animals. An example would be the window display at Radiance...they're displaying not only works that offer alternatives to animal exploitation, but that empower women by treating experts in nutrition as authorities in the matter rather than solely stocking and consulting works by white males who seem invested mostly in protecting their oppressors privilege. The book that Radiance is displaying which encourages me the most is called Becoming Vegan and it is written by the authors of the American Dietetic Associations Position Paper on Vegetarian Diets. Go Radiance! I want to skip and cheer each time I walk by :)

Examples of animal rights oriented restaurants in Seattle are the Hillside Quickies chain (wonderful, future oriented business sense there!), Pizza Pi, which was starting to fold but for which values driven folks picked up the hand to play again...same thing is happening with The Globe because of the outcry from the veggie community when it closed. People believe in the values behind these businesses and the concepts are fresh and unique so that they fill a distinctive niche in the market. It's not the same, tired, mainstream, privilege protecting stuff. These businesses are change oriented!

How many restaurants that profit from the death and dismemberment of animals does Olympia need anyway? Why are animal rights oriented people expected to "look the other way" as their table neighbors engage in behaviors that we consider to be exploitive and unnecessarily so? I'd rather ride a bus to Seattle than be expected to normalize violence against animals.

Hillside Quickie

Pizza Pi as reviewed by Happy Cow (the store site must be temporarily down.)

Thank you for asking, Rob.




---------
Nonviolence Includes Animals:
audio
"PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk's address to the International Nonviolence Conference in Bethlehem"
»

Thank you for answering.

I'm assuming that in your perfect world, no animal would be used for clothing or food. Is that correct? If this seems like a dumb question it's because it probably is, but I'm trying to clarify my assumptions.

image
»

Personally

 I find your willingness to dismiss white males so readily as offensive. 

 

"si vis pacem, para bellum"


»

Let's not have this discussion in this thread.

If you are that offended, please start a new thread to vent on.

Also, Chia, can we move our conversation to a new thread so that we can keep talking about downtown here?

image
»

Sure.




---------
Nonviolence Includes Animals:
audio
"PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk's address to the International Nonviolence Conference in Bethlehem"
»

On downtown.

I'd be interested in setting up a standing weekly coffee time for a group of folks interested in doing something about downtown. It's clear that our local government isn't being very responsive and it's clear that we need more citizen involvement. I'm willing to put in work to help organize events downtown, and I think getting many people to help and show up would be easy if we coordinated an effort. I think we would need artists, business owners, and residents represented in order to be the most effective.

What do people think?

image
»

I'm in!

let's do it. mathias
»

I think it sounds like a great idea

My availability, however, is extremely limited and is non-existent for meeting anywhere but at places set up for kids (like a park) during daylight hours.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

»

My schedule is like Gumby.

How about Traditions on a Monday afternoon, like 4pm?

image
»

can't

That's about when I start preparing dinner.

Edit: Traditions is good though. Mondays are pretty much spoken for with kid activities. Tuesdays around 10am would work for me. Wednesdays same as Tuesday. Thursday and Friday are no goes as well.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

»

Like I said, I'm like Gumby.

You pick the time and place and I can conform. Hopefully Mathias can too.

image
»

yeah me too

My time is very limited too. Monday is completely off limits. Tuesday - Saturdays I gotta be in the store from 10am - 7pm. Sundays from 11am - 5pm. We could meet at my store, that would make it easy for me, since I'm always there anyway. Jason, you could even bring your Kids - we got a little playkitchen there. hmmm, time is always so precious.... mathias
»

So,

Tuesdays at 10am, at Mathias' store? Do we want to start tomorrow or next week?

image
»

Tuesdays 10am @ einmaleins

That works for us. And tomorrow works if Mathias is willing to host on such short notice.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

»

Downtown needs...

...a coalition of willing folks to help realize a vision for a community "day-use" spa & wellness center.

I'm seeing this on Capital Lake, where the old lavatory (across from Traditions).

I see a place for folks to catch a shower and be able to do laundry that is affordable, and also a site for wellness and spa.

The site would elevate folks (simple as that), give social service a place to accomodate "day-use" of facilities for folks that need services such as shower, lavatory, and >maybe< laundry...

...as well as a destination for bicyclists on the morning commute (locker & shower), a place for yoga, and a spa for wellness (soaking, sauna, massage), and maybe even lease sites for practioners?

any thoughts? 

»

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