Downtown Housing Construction

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Downtown Housing Construction

Submitted by jlw on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 5:08am.

Didn't I read somewhere recently that there are no current plans to construct housing downtown? Someone had better let the City Council know, because they are running around doing foolish things like getting rid of alleys, all because of this hare-brained fantasy that there will be housing built downtown. And local business owners are up in arms, fearing their customers won't have a place to park when housing construction consumes what are now city-owned parking lots. They'd probably feel a lot better if they knew that this housing project is not actually planned. We all know the City Council cares deeply about parking and downtown businesses, and would never sell us out to developers!

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I'd like to know

Submitted by Nicki on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 7:05am.

too, where you read that? All we've been hearing lately is that the City Council is hell bent to make it happen downtown with market rate housing. What I'd like to know is, once the houseing is all built and all these millionaires have moved in, where are they going to shop? First off, if stores and restaurants (especially upscale ones) are closing for lack of patrons, and there are NO upscale department stores (like Saks 5th Ave.or Nordstroms, etc.)to shop at where will they be spending their money? They will go to Seattle to shop. If the Council thinks they have a plan they's better think it completely through. As it is now this will not work HERE.

Only if you assume that

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 9:11am.

no one will provide "upscale" retail to meet the new market. It seems rather unlikely that opportunity would be completely ignored. And your premise, "if stores and restaurants are closing for lack of patrons," crumbles if downtown provides housing for people with higher disposable incomes. That would definitely help the downtown service and retail sectors. I'm all for planning ahead and fighting for concessions, but your reasons for suggesting that "this will not work HERE" are not compelling.

lol

Submitted by Just another voice on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 10:39am.

Wow JLW, you are really upset that I said that the city has yet to put up Public Notice signs about this project. Man, you don't have to be flippant and be rude about it on the front page of OlyBlog.

I still stand by my statement that nothing is set in stone. Don't these folks still have to go to the city council again and present the plans so the public can view them? And don't they still have to go through several design review phases? You didn't provide any concrete evidence in that discussion saying their were plans to build downtown, either, so please don't be so sneer, and curb the sarcasm.

I am all for development downtown. Build whatever, houses, business, parking garages-- just build it with good design.

But I am Just Another Voice

Freedom of Sneer

Submitted by jlw on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 11:35am.

Sorry, but I think I will continue to be "sneer" and although city ordinance requires me to curb my dog, I am letting my sarcasm run off-leash.

Another thing I feel free to do is to talk about housing development downtown, as if it is planned. It actually strikes me as rather curious that you would prefer we didn't. Exactly whose voice are you?

Uhmm, Okay.

Submitted by Just another voice on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 12:42pm.

Uhmm, Okay.

I didn't ask anyone to not talk about housing development downtown. Rather, I suggested we get all the facts and info before we start talking blindly about 'what is going to be' when we don't know. That's how rumors start.

Sort of like with the isthmus-- everything is still under consideration and nothing is set in stone. I haven't asked anyone to 'not talk about it' but I really appreciate it when people include city council minutes, links to different websites, and other goodies that let us know it's more than just somebody spewing stuff that may or may not be true.

But I am Just Another Voice

It's the city council and

Submitted by jlw on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 12:56pm.

It's the city council and the Olympian spewing here, so perhaps we should pay attention... But even if it wasn't, even if mere citizens were speculating, asking "what if?", is that really such a bad thing to do? Considering consequences and contingencies can prevent disaster; that's why I pay my insurance premiums every month.

On another note, I am a little surprised to see the City Council acting with such disregard for downtown business owners and downtown parking -- they're barbecuing their sacred cows!

I think you missed my point.

Submitted by Just another voice on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 1:03pm.

I think you missed my point. What I am trying to say is that unless we want OlyBlog to turn into a gossip magazine speculating about this and that, then we need to ensure we strive to include all the relevant information and citations to back up our claims or allegations. When we can't, then we should probably frame the post so it isn't written as mere fact. Is that really such a bad thing?

On your other note, I find parking every day downtown, most within one or two blocks of where I need to be. In fact, I am probably able to park closer to my destination downtown, than if I had to park in a giant mall or shopping center parking lot in Lacey or at the Capital Mall.

But I am Just Another Voice

I'd say thre is a considerable difference between

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 1:43pm.

"there are no plans" and "nothing is set in stone." There ARE plans and the story in today's Olympian addresses concerns about those plans expressed by downtown businesses that would be directly affected. Anyway, if we wait until things are set in stone, we'll be too late.

Does anyone actually HAVE

Submitted by Just another voice on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 2:46pm.

Does anyone actually HAVE the plans for the building? Do we know what is going to be on the ground floor, and how many retail spaces are available? Do we know what it will look like? Will someone draft up a yellow-block-like-image so we can see.

But I am Just Another Voice

Oh, THAT kind of plan

Submitted by jlw on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 3:35pm.

Come on! The Olympia City Council obviously has a plan, an intention, supported by recent actions, to facilitate the construction of so-called "market rate" housing in downtown Olympia, at the expense of local businesses and parking availability. Can we please have your permission to use the word "plan" without it meaning, specifically, blueprints?

Tri Voice

Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 3:39pm.

I think "Just another voice" is actually a developer. And you can bet there's a plan like the one he/she is talking about in the Colpitts office up in Seattle!

Yes, I am a developer with

Submitted by Just another voice on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 4:17pm.

Yes, I am a developer with my secret plan to make downtown better. Mwahaha! Away with you, vacant lots!

Old crusty furniture store, be gone! Giant parking lots, pshaw! Vacant buildings on the isthmus, bam! People dependent on their cars, poof!

But I am Just Another Voice

Just to be clear...

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 5:51pm.

I am not against new developments downtown. Fewer surface parking lots and more folks living downtown is a good thing. I just think the development should maximize Olympia's potential, not just the developer's. I'm not sure we are doing that.

I'm not talking about blueprints

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 3:59pm.

I'm talking about the plan to build an apartment building in the parking lot across from Hannah's. You don't need to wait for a blueprint to acknowledge that there is a plan. I plan to go to the grocery store tonight. Do I need to submit a shopping list for verification?

I don't know for a fact, but it also seems like the council is not particularly interested in extracting concessions from the developer. Actually, it appears to be the other way around. I see nothing wrong with airing such concerns as early as possible. "What proof do I have," you might ask. More than the proof you have that everything is hunky-dory and in our best interests.

When did the city council

Submitted by Just another voice on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 4:11pm.

When did the city council meeting happen on the selling of this lot, or the planning of the building? Design review meetings? Public notice signs? No one has answered my question yet and I still can't find it online.

But I am Just Another Voice

Selling this block

Submitted by Matthew Green on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 4:21pm.

The council made the decision to sell this block many, many years ago, when I was on the council.

Yes, the plan since then has been to get market rate housing/mixed-use development on the site. It's a plan in so far as the council stated this goal publicly and instructed staff that any sales agreement had to have a binding clause requiring the developer to build housing.

The actual sale was made a couple years ago, after I left the council. The good deal the city gave the developer is due to the fear of possible contamination and to the council's requirement that housing be built.

Matthew Green

Thanks for the

Submitted by Just another voice on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 4:24pm.

Thanks for the clarification. So why all the sudden is this getting front page attention? Do we know that the developer is ready to build? Could they break ground next month, or wait another 2-5 years?

But I am Just Another Voice

That I don't know

Submitted by Matthew Green on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 4:31pm.

I think the Olympian overheard someone complain, and reflexively went into "make the council look bad" mode.

It's not hard to find.

Submitted by jlw on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 4:49pm.

It's not hard to find. Here's a story about the sale from the local fishwrapper. Here's the fawning editorial from the Olympian. And while nothing yet seems to be available about the building plan, you can get a sense to Colpitts' design sensibility by checking out their other projects. Just lovely.

Okay, I made one mistake on the timing

Submitted by Matthew Green on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 5:01pm.

The agreement between the developer and the city was signed earlier this year, not a couple years ago -- but it was PROPOSED at least a couple years ago.

So when are they

Submitted by Just another voice on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 5:28pm.

So when are they building, have they made any inclination yet?

But I am Just Another Voice

Knee Jerk

Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 4:01pm.

This is a knee-jerk reaction to what amounts to a luxury lot for Schoenfeld and Olympia Federal Savings over the years. But, how out of place is Schoenfeld's in downtown Olympia anyway? I mean really, only my grandparents would consider buying furniture from there. =)

In all seriousness, I'd like to see business owners who are not committed to the councils vision for downtown to kindly leave out the side door. And, with gas prices on the rise, believe me, nobody is going to Seattle to get their shopping done.

To make room for corporate chains, you mean?

Submitted by jlw on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 4:02pm.

A lot of small businesses downtown are hanging by a thread and would hate to see their rents skyrocket. If property values rise too much, they'll be out, and Starbucks, Ann Taylor, Il Fornaio, and Borders, corporate chains ad nauseum, will be moving in. Maybe we'll even get an Apple Store.

I have no idea what you are

Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 4:06pm.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I never mentioned anything about corporate chains.

I will say this though - downtown needs a destination store. If it's corporate, so be it. I have no problem with corporations who are good stewards in their respective community.

Knee jerk?

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 4:05pm.

while your assessment of business owners who are not committed to the developer's...er, uh...council's vision of downtown is the product of an extravagantly reasoned analysis of every relevant detail.

And why do you hate grandparents?

Why does everyone here want

Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 4:09pm.

Why does everyone here want to twist my words? If you have a question, just ask. It's almost as if you'd like to discuss the matter from only your point of view. No wonder I took a long break...

I don't care for my grandparents style if you must know. That smiley face should have been a good indicator of my intention there.

I assume you don't hate your grandparents

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 5:28pm.

I'll even assume you love them. It was just a fun thing to say. ;)))

Odd for the businesses to oppose it NOW

Submitted by Matthew Green on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 4:29pm.

My question about this whole thing is "why are two downtown businesses opposing this proposal NOW?"

The city council expressed its desire to see more downtown housing at least a decade ago. The council set downtown housing as its number one goal about six years ago, and announced its intent to sell this parcel specifically for downtown housing at about the same time. The deal with the developer for this parcel was signed at least two years ago.

All along, the Olympia Downtown Association supported the goal of more market-rate downtown housing. Kerry McHugh was the president of ODA, and the bank was a member (I think, might be wrong about that last point).

So why do McHugh and the bank raise these concerns NOW? What the hell?

Matthew Green

PS: To suggest that this plan is an effort to hurt downtown businesses is just bull. The whole point of supporting downtown housing (which I agree with) is to bring more activity, including more money, to downtown, which will in turn better support downtown businesses. To hear two businesses whine about something is not a basis for concluding that the council is anti-business.

I suppose they could be complaining now

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 5:30pm.

to see if they can get anything out of the deal. Some store parking for instance. Just guessing.

I think it has been the

Submitted by Katherine on Fri, 05/30/2008 - 5:56pm.

I think it has been the interaction with the developer that has turned the McHugh's off. And the loss of parking, for sure. But I think once they got wind of the proposed building lines they realized that egress would be really limited. The new owner of New Moon Cafe (who will also be impacted) testified to the council about the alley vacation and mentioned that he had had no luck working with developers to get information or to even just chat. It seems like Collpits may not be starting off being the best of neighbors.

Concern About Details Doesn't Mean Antidevelopment.

Submitted by furrerdw on Sat, 05/31/2008 - 7:52am.

I doubt the businesses affected by the Colpitt's construction are upset about general development downtown. I don't presume to speak for someone else, but I'm fairly confident that Kerry has been a vocal proponent of housing, parking and other development in the core for years. I am also confident that she has been aware the lot would eventually be developed. I also know she has been a tireless supporter of our downtown; giving time, money and sweat to better an area in which her family has run a business for many years. I read the Olympian article to mean they are concerned and raising questions about the effect on their buildings, businesses and surrounding area if precautions are not taken by the city or developer to mitigate the disruption caused by construction. They are not "opposing this proposal" in spirit, but rather in logistics and neither is under the impression that development downtown would hurt business. But that's just my two cents.

Then they need to be clear about that

Submitted by Matthew Green on Sat, 05/31/2008 - 7:58pm.

...because the Olympian article made it sound like they were just mad at the council for driving out local businesses in favor of housing. Maybe they did mean just concern about the details, but they didn't express it well. And as I learned very well as a councilmember, what the newspaper says you said becomes the reality.

Hey now! what the newspaper

Submitted by Meta Hogan on Sun, 06/01/2008 - 7:47am.

Hey now!

what the newspaper says you said becomes the reality.

Especially when people who should know better perpetuate that. As well-informed citizens, we can actively seek more accurate information. If we don't, who will?

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