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Submitted by emmettoconnell on Sat, 12/08/2007 - 8:02am.
For the past nine months or so, I had the pleasure of sitting on a small group with tctvjohn, epersonae and chad360 (among other folks like Deb Vinsel from TCTV), putting our brains to work about how a city sponsored wifi network might work in downtown. From what I can tell, even though the city council put out $20,000 to jump start the process, a public wifi network isn't going to happen anytime soon. Here is the summary of the report we sent to the council's General Government committee (Joe Heyer, TJ Johnson and Jeff Kingsbury):
Here is a link to the report itself. My understanding of where we left this off is that we'd continue to talk about pushing this forward. First, ironing out the policy issues, starting with city rules (chad360, you want to expand on this?) that might stand in the way of wifi deployment. The funds that the city put forward might be a good starting point to scoping out what would be possible in terms of starting up a regional project, but not enough for a downtown network. I still hope we can move forward on this. I emailed a few folks at the city about where we might be going with this project a few weeks ago, and got (partially) this response from Joe Hyer:
In the short-term, and outside what the city council can do, I remember chad360 chattering on about a project in Seattle where people publish their available, public wifi signals. I'm thinking these articles are what he was talking about, but if he could elaborate... Popular Science: Free Neighborhood wifi Introduction to Neighbornode Lifehacker: Connect with your neighbors online I could see us doing on our own what the city can't do with a handful of neighborhoods setting up their own shared systems. This at least seems to be a project that the city could offer assistance on to the neighborhood associations. There is already two downtown associations that could collaborate on this.
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Something strikes me about
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Sat, 12/08/2007 - 10:14am.Something strikes me about Joe's characterization as a wired downtown as something we could market. Its good goal, but the impression that a city sponsored network being the only marketable product is off base, I think.
I could easily see the downtown PBIA or the DNA marketing the idea of a community network to their members. As Joe points out, there are tons of open wifi nodes downtown, what's lacking is organization and a sense that those nodes are dependable. The links above (neighborhoodnodes) I think provide a framework for something like this.
When enough folks get on board, it would be easy to produce signage ("downtown wifi signal available here") and brochures with maps.
ever heard of Zhonka. . .
Submitted by theunabonger on Sat, 12/08/2007 - 12:49pm.. . . . they have free *dependable* WiFi all over downtown, no cost, no revenue necessary, no ads, no data collection, and no logs (and they help sponsor OlyBlog!)
The city should spend money cleaning the filth off the sidewalk, building the much delayed and sorely needed parks, and let the demand drive the connectivity market. I'm afraid the city council is not up to this task, nor should we ask it of them.
Cosmo
You're right
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sat, 12/08/2007 - 1:09pm.Beyond surfbreaks
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Sat, 12/08/2007 - 3:40pm.You think city funded wi-fi
Submitted by wilson on Sat, 12/08/2007 - 12:14pm.Beyond cool
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Sat, 12/08/2007 - 3:43pm.Even better, taxpayer funded
Submitted by wilson on Sat, 12/08/2007 - 4:15pm.cable tv
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Sat, 12/08/2007 - 4:53pm.In that cable television and internet connectivity are the same thing, your are right. But, they aren't that same.
That said, organizations like TCTV exist because cable tv operators only come into a community because local government grants them a franchise.
check out meraki.com
Submitted by benny on Sat, 12/08/2007 - 5:35pm.They are the same, you have
Submitted by wilson on Sat, 12/08/2007 - 5:39pm.Think about it like this...
Submitted by Rick on Sun, 12/09/2007 - 11:27am....having muni wifi is like distributing the library (in fact, the collective knowledge of the entire world) into every part of the city, not just at its physical location. That is fundamentally different from television.
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
Yep
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 12/09/2007 - 1:07pm.incorrect assumption
Submitted by chad360 on Sun, 12/09/2007 - 1:41pm.Cable TV franchise is not the same as rules governing telco & ISPs- that said, look into Utah's Utopia project
Individually we all pay way more than either ISP or TV service is really worth, we are just talking about letting a nonprofit run the show instead of a corporation designed to make $$$ (for starters).
weigh-in on Wi-Fi (& snow!)
Submitted by chad360 on Sun, 12/09/2007 - 4:39pm.OK, where to start--
Glad the City didn't spend the $$$ on WiFi (yet).
On Meraki: Meraki technology has been in Oly for over two years(presented to TCTV/CoO 2007), and I am an early Meraki integrator...Meraki is "OK", but not great-- I'd be happy to go into pros/cons of Meraki gear on another thread- (ENA FreeNet uses Actiontec DSL modems & Meraki APs)
Point #1
Internet access should "at cost" (similar to some services offered by a public utility), to lower service & access costs for rate-payers & to subsidize service to other nonprofits.
Proposal:
501c3 owns network & provides free guest WiFi in downtown core for visitors
501c12 (co-op) runs ISP service for subscribers
--both nonprofits work to develop services with TRL & OSD, as well as KAOS & TCTV.
Support for "EMS, E911, Project 25 interoperability, SafeCom/NII certs, and VoIP integration" are stated goals of the nonprofits, as well as continued operation "at cost" for subscribers.
Point #2
Zhonka surf-breaks are reliable and a great community resource, but...
Zhonka is not "free of cost" (...although I think I understand where Unabonger/Cosmo is coming from here).
Unabonger/Cosmo, care to explain how it works at Zhonka? How much does your product cost you and then how much do you sell it for? How does this compare to market rates from big companies like Qwest & Speakeasy?
I'm assuming that businesses that have Zhonka Surf Breaks (like B&B or Cafe Vita) are paying for ISP services from Zhonka (about $15/mo. for Zhonka regardless of circuit speed), and depending on the speed of the circuit you buy from the telco, anywhere from $15-$45 for connectivity...please explain how this all works--
--I didn't realize that all the Surf Breaks are free to the owners of the businesses & that Zhonka donates all the Internet connectivity as well-- (revenue free?)
"Cost free" to a user (, yes, but minus the cup of coffee or whatever you usually buy to pop in & grab some WiFi), and normal cost to retail owner (but possible write-off for tax purposes), and in any case, we all know that Zhnoka can't support me while I roam about downtown.
Running an ISP must be pretty cool job, so tell us what you think could happen with community-based WiFi in Oly--
I think it would be innovative to collaborate on a community-wide, "open-access" mesh network that would support Voice-Over-IP switching, Internet access, and direct networking.
Any thoughts? I know there are many ideas jumbled out here, so excuse the mess >grin<
oh, and PS: *snow*!