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Submitted by chad360 on Thu, 05/29/2008 - 9:18am.

Strong feelings surround the concept of ethnic race and also surround the concept of sincerity.

What constitutes sincerity and is this something that "whites" just don't possess?  I don't understand this mindset...

As a caucasian male (and part-time census worker), I am constantly challenged to define my sense of self, and while I sincerely feel like I am a "native" here is America, I realize that this is in fact a very offensive concept for many.

Why?

What human makes a choice of how & when to be born?

...and more importantly, what worth is there to cultural placedness?

I am motivated to assert that the sincere feelings I have with regards to my native land are just as valid and real as the feelings others have, but I'd like to hear what others think-

 

 

»

rudeness

ehh..its not worth talking to a very rude person.
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worth?

What, you get paid for talking?

Amy,I'm not the one going around dissing whites and putting words in the mouths of "Native Americans"...if that isn't rude, I duno what is?

>whatever<

...but if you don't want to participate, then don't. No one is forcing you...

You seem to think that phenotypical expression of genetic traits in the human species "means" something, even taking the concept of race so far as to justify your warped views of an "us versus them" confrontational mentality (as expressed in your comments about the workshop and sharing practices of spiritualism).

Please feel free to explain where all this is coming from, but please keep your drive-by name-calling to yourself-

 

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Deep breathing is for everyone!

I have gotten value from this conversation. I think it's one of the delicious by-products of community journalism. I appreciate everyone's contributions to it, especially olympiagal's and chad360's. You two have been able to go very real places with this topic. Awesome. There are a lot of people out there who haven't given it much thought, and probably wouldn't even know how they felt about it without engaging in (or reading) a conversation like this. You made that possible. BUT...

It seems like you got off on the wrong foot, and there has been a good bit of rudeness (or maybe just friction?) between you, on this thread and the other one.

Maybe you both could step back and imagine that you're really important players in a hyperlocal cross-cultural creation of shared values.

Then, come back to the table with a renewed sense of magnanimity and purpose that transcends the hurt feelings and misunderstanding that happened.

[Obligatory humorous self-deprecation reentry-to-Planet-Earth bit that acknowledges by contrast the bigness of What Has Been Said: I'll bring the pixie dust. *smile*] 

 

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Related news story

Dunkin Donuts takes a stand against cultural appropriation. Not really, but I had to tie it in somehow.
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Thanks Gug

I appreciate the knack you have for saying the right thing at the right time-

As a Welsh Celt in North America, I'm not sure where my identity resides these days, and I'm always looking for sign posts along the road of life, so thanks for chiming-in.

 

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Melting pots...

Ok, lots of ethnic and social groups out there, all with different beliefs, cultures and ways of doing things.

I'm white.  But my grandmother several times removed was full blood Cherokee.  She didn't sign the Daws Rolls so in the eyes of the gubmint she was not official Cherokee.  Go figure.  The rest of my ancestors were German, Scotch, Irish, British, and mebbe a bit of Swiss and French thrown in for good measure.

I have white ancestors who were in North America in the mid 1600's.  I can show direct ancestors in the Revolution, the War of 1812, and on both sides of The War Between the States.  In addition I had an ancestor in the Texas Revolution, who fought at the battle of San Jacinto.

My grandmother's family were "Okies" during the Depression.

I was born in Southern Oregon, and grew up on Whidbey Island.

I live on a boat and am a gun owner.

Can we see the huge mix of cultures here?  I identify most with the cultures and practices that involve the bearing of arms, the culture I adopted when I moved onto a sailboat.  I also appreciate and honor some Scotch-Irish culutural practices.  I am very much aware of my entire cultural makeup, although I do not have much identity with my native ancestors, although perhaps an appreciation for nature and the wilds come into play here.

Ultimately though, I identify myself as an "American."  To me that means a place made up of immigrants who came, adopted some culture, added highly desireable parts of their own to the one they find, and melded with the society around them.

At any given time I feel comfortable playing the role of a cruiser, Westerner, gun packer, outdoorsman, survivalist (not in the paranoid bunker living way, but rather the highly prepared for stuff way) person of education, redneck, or just plain average joe.

We all wear many culutural masks, and identify more strongly with some over others.  As "Americans" we may find aspects of a culture we were not born into, or grew up in that are desireable to us for whatever reason.  Respecting that culture and adopting it's practices is not shameful.

I was not born a boater.  I chose a particular lifestyle and the cultural practices that came with it.  When I go to Alaska, I will be adopting another culture.  When I was in California, I rejected various local cultural practices, but adopted several others.  I learned to eat mexican style, and various other local practices.

In the end I am who I am based on how I was raised, and what cultural arts and practices that have been around me that I chose to adopt.  I can wear a cowboy hat as easily as I can wear a shirt and tie.

To adopt part of another culture should be an act of respect to that culture and flattering to it.

Marketing it, well that too is an American Cultural Practice...  We are a nation of capitalist running dogs after all.  :-) 

Some even call me mad! And why? Because I dared to dream …of my own race of atomic monsters! Atomic supermen with octagonal-shaped bodies that suck blood out of...--Professor Farnsworth
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Nothing wrong

with questioning it.
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And...

What the bejesus is a grandmother "several times removed"? Was it because your folks kicked her out the house several times? My daddy's side is Okie and Ozark (aux Arkansas), but I aint never heared it put that way before. My uncle Oris Coy (Bud) and my grandpa Joel Orbia (Joe) was several times removed by the local constabulary for their felonious ways (though they were really just borrowing them chickens). Could be maybe your granny had an affection for other people's chickens too? Why didn't she enter the Daws? My great grandpa Lester told me how he tried everything he could to get on the roll. Heck, everyone else was back then. There was grass money, bread money, and strip money to be got and times were tough. Now, of course, everyone in the family thinks they really is part Cherokee because of Lester and because of my great great grandpa who they called Black Jack. But I’m thinkin’ it was just Lester figurin’ another way to borrow someone else’s chickens.
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Maybe it was easier than

Maybe it was easier than saying his Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Grandmother.

You think that's confusing? Look at the Royal Family Tree. When speaking of Christian IX of Denmark, Prince William could either refer to him as his Great-Great-Great-Grandfather or his Great-Great-Great-Great-Grandfather and be right on both counts. That's one thing, but check this out. Prince Charles could either refer to the Queen as his Mother...or as his Third Cousin.

You can blow out a candle / But you can't blow out a fire / Once the flames begin to catch / The wind will blow it higher

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Well given that the

Daws Roll (actually the Dawes Rolls) began in the 1890s, it is very difficult to imagine five greats in front of the grandmother. I know I'm old and so was Lester, but I only need one great to get back that far.
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eh

 I can't recall if Grandma was two or three generations back...  so I just said "several times removed"  

I don't know why she didn't register with the federal government as a native.  I suspect she didn't see the worth in signing a piece of the white man's paper attesting to her heritage.

There were a number of Cherokee who refused to register.  Would you have?   

Some even call me mad! And why? Because I dared to dream …of my own race of atomic monsters! Atomic supermen with octagonal-shaped bodies that suck blood out of...--Professor Farnsworth
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Yes, there were Cherokee who did not ask to be put on the rolls

Not sure why. Also not sure how many did so because there were finacial implications such as bread money, grass money, and strip money. Don't have a clue what I would have done. But given my family background I imagine I would have been too "proud" to do the smart thing.
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Everyone roots...

...for their home team.
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