Fanatics to attack planned parenthood!

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Fanatics to attack planned parenthood!

Submitted by a.future.with.n... on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 2:14am.

Peace work

I just found out about this, but apparently a group calling itself "40 days for life" will be camping out in front of our local planned parenthood trying to spread thier message of hatred. Olyblog is as good a place as any to get the ball rolling on ideas for what to do.

To those who would make excuses for this kind of protest: I remind you of the eastside womens clinic fire of a while back. These are not harmless people. They have been known to use violence, murder and intimidation to accomplish thier goals.

Here's the info according to thier website:

This fall, from September 26 - November 4, our community is one of 89 cities in 33 states across the nation joining together for the largest pro-life mobilization in history -- the nationwide 40 Days for Life campaign.

People of faith and conscience across America are praying that this effort will mark the beginning of the end of abortion in our land.

40 Days for Life is an intensive effort designed to raise awareness, save lives, bring healing, and lead our nation to repentance for the sin of abortion through:

40 days of prayer and fasting

40 days or peaceful vigil at a local abortion facility

40 days of grassroots community outreach

Every community that has conducted 40 Day for Life has reported measurable lifesaving results. Some cities have experienced as much as a 28% drop in local abortions and over 1,200 new volunteers getting involved in local pro-life efforts.

We are excited to see what God has in store for our city this fall, and invite you to join in this history-making effort!

I don't know about you, but I'd like to see this either stopped outright or countered creativly. I'm thinking counter camp out? hilarious pranks? really big signs? any ideas?

Donations to Planned Parenthood

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 7:33am.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

Clarification please...

Submitted by DC on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 8:02am.

Are you saying it was this group that lit that fire or just pro-lifers in general?

Personally I have no problem with this if they stick to thier plan of:

40 days of prayer and fasting
40 days or peaceful vigil at a local abortion facility
40 days of grassroots community outreach

Even if I disagree with their message, I feel those are acceptable ways to communicate. If that's what they do for 40 days...

Now the moment they bring out signs with an aborted fetuses in full color, or Westboro Baptist shows up with "GOD HATES FAGS" signs, then I'm going to wish they weren't there. If they start assaulting people, or lighting fires, then sure, they need to go.

I just think you might be projecting a bit on how these people are going to act. After they get started, why don't you let us know how they are presenting themselves?

I think regardless, big signs, and counter protest is great, but I don't think you should prank unless you would be willing to endure a counter prank.

By all means support Planned

Submitted by Mary Baker Eddy on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 8:08am.

By all means support Planned Parenthood. By all means show up to counter whatever message 40 Days for Life presents.

I don't know a thing about that specific group other than what's on their website but please don't lump all Pro-Lifers or all Christians into the same category. It's no different than blaming all homeless people, or all African-Americans, for crimes such as those committed by Anthony Whitfield.

What DC and Mary

Submitted by OperaGirl on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 8:32am.

What DC and Mary said.

"Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing."

As my friend likes to do...

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 8:45am.

When the protestors are out at Planned Parenthood, the staff will stand out there collecting donations and holding a sign. That is when I like to donate. My friend will walk up to the abortion protestors and ask them if they support war.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

Yes, turn it into a fund raising opportunity

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 9:12am.

where people can donate a certain amount for every day that the protestors camp.

Great idea, Gug

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 9:48am.

Let's pass the word.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

Hmm..

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 10:37am.

Looks like the filthy Catholics will be in my parking lot for 40 days. Karen Rotter who seems to be the planner, and looks to be dragging people in from the local St. Michael Parish.

You can complain directly to her at..
karenrotter@juno.com

On a positive note.. I can eat my lunch in front of them and listen to their 'faith' expressively grumble away.

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

Filthy Catholics

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:03am.

Is that a sub-group or are you suggesting I need a shower?

errr

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:06am.

some of we Catholics are a lil slower on the pro-life scope. Some of us ever went to school at St. Mike's, slow down on the blanket statements eh?

Back it up.

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:13am.

Can you affect some change in the whole "40 days of life" plan at your local God-eries? Maybe you can get St. Micheals to separate itself from Krazy Karen's mission to "...lead our nation to repentance for the sin of abortion".

Till then, there are going to be a bunch of Filthy C's sitting in my parking lot.

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

Knowing they're filthy sure makes it easier to

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:34am.

pull the trigger.

Say Docents, is this allowed?

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:38am.

Are whole groups of people allowed to be disparaged? If I'm a "filthy Catholic" then I have a whole shitload of politically incorrect terms for the lot of you.

Is it allowed because at least Paisley didn't piss off some people with an oral sex reference?

Hi Merwyn...

Submitted by Rick on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 1:25pm.

...Welcome back. I took it as a joke. If it offends you, the first thing to do is say, "I know you may have been joking, but I'm offended by being called names. Could you please not do that?" We can take it from there (depending on the response that you receive).

When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow

Does this not count?

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 1:55pm.

....slow down on the blanket statements eh?

Not to be argumentative

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 2:17pm.

Not to be argumentative (because despite the rants in my "safe haven", and certain actions that some thought were artistic in a way, I'm not here to disrupt Olyblog or fight for the sake of fighting) but Paisleyboxer's comments read as if they're serious.

I'm not asking you or Paisley to delete the comment (if you'll remember, deletions were the crux of the recent troubles. Plus I remember offending another poster from St. Mike's without having intended to.) but I ask:

Would you have taken the comment "filthy Jews" as a joke? Or "filthy Negros"? How about "filthy homeless people"? If the person saying it was just joking, trying to keep things light, or displaying a certain cynical dry wit, is it alright?

I'm anticipating a counterpoint: The people (Catholics) weren't being slammed for being born Catholic, they were being slammed for actions that some of them do while the rest won't condemn.

If that's the case is it alright to say "Filthy Native Americans, they slaughter whales and don't even preserve the meat." "Filthy Koreans, they eat dogs." "Filthy Jews, they "mutilate" their infant boys." "Filthy Mexicans, they don't flush their used toilet paper, they throw it in the trash." "Filthy African-Americans, they cheer wife-killers and support dog fighting." "Filthy homeless, they need to get a job" "Filthy Muslims, they're terrorists."

Just for clarity, none of those examples represent anything I believe. I don't like the action exampled (except for circumcision which I don't have an opinion on either way, and the houseless one which I know goes beyond more than just the example) but I don't (or at least try not to, when my knee starts to jerk) label the entire Group. Even when each group has a percentage of theirselves which defends the offending action for Cultural reasons.

When women were offended from disparaging comments it was deleted. While in that case the commenter wasn't joking, and after calming down agreed to it's deletion, I doubt that any jokes of that same vein would've been appreciated.

A little consistency on the subject of Respect and Tolerance in Olyblog is all I ask. Feel free to call me out when I violate it myself.

Thanks (and for the record, hives aren't always bad.)

Merwyn...

Submitted by Rick on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 3:31pm.

...let me spell this out for you. You're asking for absolute consistency from a process that can't produce that. First, perceptions are different. I know Mike, and I know his kind of humor (pretty black). I also know that he works with a population that is consistently labeled "filthy," i.e., the homeless. Second, governance on OlyBlog is a group process. I'm not talking about the docents (yet), I'm talking about everyone. It's YOUR responsibility to talk to Mike if you have trouble with something he says. (It's also your responsibility to not get all up in his grill about it so that he can respond in a positive manner.) Third, if the group can't work it out, THEN the docents can help by discussing the situation and taking some action. None of this is automatic, clear-cut, or guarantees consistency.

Fine

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 3:53pm.

Paisley, you are offensive, shut up. Mike's humor is a little more than black, it is offensive and I don't think it should be tolerated here. Hear that everyone? I have told him that I don't appreciate his comments and I wish for him to choose his wording better in the future.

Thank you.

Submitted by Rick on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 4:07pm.

I mean it. Thanks for being clear.

Rick-

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 7:30pm.

I hear what you're saying. Surprise Surprise my brand of humor is often acidic and borders on the pathological. If you'll remember it's gotten not only me but Olycop in trouble with the masses here. Someone didn't think the joke was funny, thought it was in bad taste, and the community came to their defense and told us to watch it.

You insist that this is Paisley's black humor. Maybe it is. If I knew that for sure I'd quickly back off and throw some hard-hitting Catholic punches of my own. There's a difference between alternative humor (such as George Carlin's controversial "Rape can be Funny" skit) and angry hate.

Okay, how about this "counter"-protest....

Submitted by Debmonstrative on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 7:59pm.

...any of us who ever go to church or even loosely affiliate with one, be creative and make up peaceful but stymieing signs saying, e.g., "I'm a Lutheran/Catholic/whatever and I support women's rights", "Jesus loved poor women" (referring to the blatant class issues at hand), "I am pro-choice and Jesus loves me," etc. (I'm sure there are many other nifty slogans you all could come up with and I'll think of others, but I'm supposed to be working right now.) Then we get together with our signs and circle these folks, smiling (maybe throwing daisies). I, too, am pissed at the injustice this group promotes and the fact that the employees of PP have to endure this crap, but in the past when I have stifled my basest instincts to punch people and instead worked to avoid sinking to their level, it has produced some lovely results.

Wait, so in order for me to

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:49am.

Wait, so in order for me to backup the fact that not all Catholics are pro-life, I have to convince St. Michaels (not the only Catholic church in town btw) to separate itself from this Karen person and her mission?

Who are you the friggin Wizard of Oz? If you want to run around looking for a heart, some courage and a brain you go for it, but do me a huge favor and quit blanketing all Catholics as anti-abortion freaks who are willing to sit outside of a clinic with a sign.

Cute.

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:56am.

A religious zealot sitting in a parking lot for 40 days.. not eating and not bathing is inherently filthy.

Just cause I have an opinion doesn't make it true.

Let's get back on task to pointing out Karen Rotter is a lunatic and.. for some of us.. lets get back to our jobs. I can't keep hitting refresh all day(as much fun as I'm having)!

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

n/m

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 12:31pm.

n/m

Be sure you tell the people

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 2:19pm.

Be sure you tell the people of Camp Quixote and Bread & Roses that "not eating and not bathing is inherently filthy." and as such justifies referring to anyone in that situation as filthy.

Merwyn

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 3:22pm.

You are a very uninformed person today. A huge group those who were, and are guests of Bread and Roses, are very good friends to me. Lumping our friends fallen on hard times into your analogy on a stupid blog is absolutely classless.

Did you help Tim set up the first Poor Peoples Union Meeting? Didn't think so.

Stagger off buddy.

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

Okay, they're very good

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 7:21pm.

Okay, they're very good friends of you. But still, does that mean, prior to them receiving help, when they weren't able to eat or get clean on a consistent basis that they were "inherently filthy"? Or is the mere fact that they're your friends make them the exception to your rule? And isn't Bread & Roses affiliated (loosely or otherwise) with those "filthy Catholics"? Bear in mind you're referring to my Mother, my grandparents, my sister, in fact most of my family, not to mention numerous teachers, doctors and social workers from my life. You're crapping on people very important to me.

Why was my analogy classless? Are you telling me that all those examples I put forth are in fact true with the exception of your friends?

As for this being a stupid blog...well, perhaps I'm one to talk, but if it's so stupid what are we doing here?

You want to tell me to stagger off, fine. But I'm not your buddy, pal.

Why, you better go back to beautiful Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Georgia, Tennessee.

They're also good friends of me....

Submitted by Meta Hogan on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 7:49pm.

And I would like you to stagger back, please. I appreciate your participation here, and your willingness to stand up to hypocrisy. "If it's so stupid what are we doing here?" Becoming not stupid. That's the point--and you're an integral part of that. One person's ridiculous blather is no reason to write off a whole group. Please consider the non-stupidness that sometimes happens here. :)

I'll stagger off for you,

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 7:53pm.

I'll stagger off for you, but after I clarify that I wasn't writing off the homeless, nor was I trying to argue how they might be "inherently filthy".

Why, you better go back to beautiful Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Georgia, Tennessee.

Merwyn, no reasonable person would think

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 9:00am.

you were writing off the homeless. It was a reasonalbe analogy given the currency of Mr. Paisley's "cred." The only thing that keeps me from being even more disapointed in this community is knowing most people are ignorant or insensitive to their own inheritance of anti-catholicism. It is one of the last acceptable prejudices afterall. Perhaps when anti-catholic sentiment merges with immigration issues, people will care.

I'm pretty tired...

Submitted by Rick on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 9:00am.

...of the community being bashed because of our (collective) inability to solve all the world's problems. That's asking a little too much from a blog, don't ya think?

And my Irish Catholic ancestors attest to the absurdity of your assumptions.

She wasn't asking you to

Submitted by Norm on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 11:30am.

She wasn't asking you to stagger off, she was asking you to stagger back (into the conversation, as well as back onto olyblog), Meta, myself, and Gugli had a conversation about it all last night. Don't run too far away.

the filthy Catholics

Submitted by Sue on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 4:11pm.

i think that this is an unfair insult to a whole group of people and, in fact, pretty ignorant of the facts. there are quite a few very progressive Catholics. most of the ones i've met have a well-developed sense of social justice, and would never consider being out in the parking lot with those grotesque signs. perhaps some of the readers and writers here can't remember back to the '80s when Catholics were at the forefront of liberation movements in Latin America, and the right-wing slogan in El Salvador was "be a patriot: kill a priest."

Again...

Submitted by Rick on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 4:16pm.

...I believe that Mike was joking. Having worked at Bread and Roses, I'm pretty sure he's familiar with the progressive Catholic movement.

Holy smokes

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 4:32pm.

I'll remember that the next time I have the urge to tell someone to "suck my Pope."

That's making me think of a

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 7:35pm.

That's making me think of a fairly recent joke, proof that I'm not over-sensitive concerning Catholics.

However, in the interest of decorum, and because the, ahem, subject was a bone of contention at one point, I'll only share the punchline:

A: By kicking an altarboy under the jaw.

Why, you better go back to beautiful Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Georgia, Tennessee.

I just rode past on my way

Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 10:41am.

I just rode past on my way home from Vita and they are indeede out there with the full color fetus signs. I saw a handful of people so far, but I'm sure more are to come. This should be fun.

This actually is the Friday routine.

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 10:45am.

Sometimes I forget about it being Friday.. and seeing a nice shiny fetus glop on a board always tells.. me.. "Weekend's Here"!

This is always the routine for Fridays though...

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

Oh,

Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 10:59am.

Well, since you have the best view from up in your tower you should keep an eye out for any pickup in activity. The Coat Hanger Army is just a bird call away.

How I detest those signs.

Submitted by OperaGirl on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:30am.

How I detest those signs. Try explaining it to very sensitive innocent young children that you want to stay innocent. Fun times. Explaining war and why some people act to gung ho/casual about war is almost as fun but not quite.

"Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing."

That's too bad...

Submitted by DC on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:37am.

I have a really hard time with the fetus pictures. When I see that, I don't think "oh that poor baby" I think "what a bunch of jerks".

Lets abandon our respect of each other and just start using shock value and gore to try and get a point across.

As I said above, I'm fine with peace, prayer and community outreach, but big gory fetus pictures just dance so close to the line that it bothers me. If I made a movie, filled with just stills of aborted fetuses, what do you think it would be rated? I don't like the fact kids might see this.

It's hard to respond to messages like these because you get tempted to stoop to that level. One thing to remember is that it takes so much less to offend most of these folks. They push my sense of decency by exploiting gore, so what would challenge theirs? What would have them shielding their childrens eyes?

A coat hanger army would be a direct assualt on the message, and it is funny, but also a bit crude in my opinion.

Maybe you could tell your

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:40am.

Maybe you could tell your kids that this is what happens after an abortion. When they ask questions after that continue to tell them the truth. If they decide to be Pro-Life when they grow up they'll at least know what they're dealing with.

If the procedure is "right" then the results should be "right" too, right?

We'll just have to agree

Submitted by OperaGirl on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:48am.

We'll just have to agree to disagree because I see no reason why a 9 and 4 year old need to know about abortion.

"Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing."

Or masterbation for that

Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:58am.

Or masterbation for that matter. Remember? =) I'll bet some of the same folks who supported the "smile" sign despise the fetus graphic. Go figure...

Welcome to the circus that is and always will be Olympia.

I would much rather my kids

Submitted by OperaGirl on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 12:04pm.

I would much rather my kids see the tacky masterbation sign than bloody fetuses.

"Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing."

I'm with ya. I have no kids,

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 12:11pm.

I'm with ya. I have no kids, but I would much rather see the tacky masturbation sign than the fetus one.

Is that tacky or wacky?

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 12:16pm.

Either way, it was pretty funny if you ask me. And why did peole have problems with it? Was it explaining masterbation or explaining why they were smiling just before the kid asked the question?

My older son knows what it

Submitted by OperaGirl on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 12:20pm.

My older son knows what it is and we aren't all uptight about things like that. I just thought it was tacky.

"Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing."

Eh, there are far worse

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 12:22pm.

Eh, there are far worse things. I'd much rather a child know the ins and outs about masturbation (does this sound weird to anyone else?) than the ins and outs about abortion. The one is far more useful than the other.

Yeah, I'd rather my kids

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 2:23pm.

Yeah, I'd rather my kids played with themselves than had an abortion too. In fact, if they realized that it's natural and nothing to be ashamed of they might be satisfied with themselves and not find themselves in a situation where they have to consider the choices.

I can agree to disagree too.

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 2:20pm.

I can agree to disagree too. I personally have no desire to show those pictures to a 4 and 9 year old. At the same time I see no reason to take those same kids to Planned Parenthood (not saying that's what you were planning to do.)

Planned Parenthood & kids

Submitted by enpen on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 9:49am.

When I was about 10 years old my single/progressive/liberal/feminist mom took me to Planned Parenthood for a sex-ed discussion involving their employees, parents and children from 10 to 18. It was a good and safe environment for some honest education. Neither myself nor two of my friends who were there had children until well into our late 20's. I guess I see a lot of benefit in taking children someplace like Planned Parenthood.

Please just remember that

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:01am.

Please just remember that these, provided they don't step over the line, have every right to protest this clinic.

I think you know that I'm

Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:12am.

I think you know that I'm the last person who would trample on another's right to assemble/protest. I have the right to counter their protest as well, and will do so louder and with more energy than they could ever imagine.

On one hand people want to

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:43am.

On one hand people want to call the Pro-Lifers hypocrites should they support the War or Capital Punishment (and I agree, they'd be hypocrites.) Then on the other side you have advocates for some of the most marginalized humans in America supporting the termination of life.

I'll never get it.

I agree with you, Merwyn

Submitted by Tschida on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 12:40pm.

Something we have in common I guess. I am anti-abortion, and I am anti-capital punishment. Both are wretched alternatives to a problem. I don't think it is necessarily hypocritical, as I can understand the base desire to inflict the ultimate punishment on the guilty, as opposed to abortion which does this to the innocent. But both are options that should be ended. Either you value all life or you don't.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

OK Merwyn, the truth:

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 10:55am.

We support abortion because the Dark Lord commands us. Abortion, and groups like Planned Parenthood are the only way the Dark Master can build his fetus army. The fetus army will help us destroy the Earth as we know it, and enslave all the good little boys and girls to do our bidding (mostly laundry and dishes and sweeping and mopping).

The Fetus Army

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 11:33am.

sounds really creepy. Hey, if you kill a fetus soldier, it it murder? NO! Because it's war and that's okay!

Wasn't pointing at your Rob,

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:45am.

Wasn't pointing at your Rob, it was a generic statement for the whole community. I came late into the thread or I would have posted it first thing. Give them all the energy you want, give them some for me while you are at it.

You guys gave me a great idea!

Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 12:35pm.

One way to counter protest is to outlandishly out-whatever the "other side". Perhaps a huge group should show up as pro-masturbation protesters and hoop and holler and raise a stink about how planned parenthood is destroying the sanctity of masturbation. I love this blog!

Back to the subject at hand

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 12:35pm.

pun intended. Would anyone consider camping with them and chronicling the experience? That would be cool.

Either you value freedom or you don't...

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 12:50pm.

Anyway, I'm wondering what folks have in mind as a counter to this event.

hey, you know those events

Submitted by Sue on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 9:20pm.

hey, you know those events when people pledge a certain amount for each mile that someone else walks or runs or whatever? well, what about having people pledge a certain amount per day to planned parenthood for each of the demonstrators? e.g. if there are ten people out there for forty days, say 10 cents per person per day, 0.10 x 10 x 40 = $40, or whatever. it would be interesting to put them in a situation of being fundraisers for planned parenthood.

That's a perfectly

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 8:38am.

good idea.

Tent City Ordinance

Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 3:51pm.

This would be an illegal campsite under the new Tent City Ordinance and would not be allowed. If the city did allow it, well, I'd hate to see the response to that.

Does..

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 3:56pm.

Karen have a permit to hold a peaceful gathering?

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

you don't need a permit as

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 10:59am.

you don't need a permit as long as you're not blocking a street. They can gather on the sidewalk all they want as long they adhere to the Pedestrian Interference Ordinance.

Fair Play to you

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 7:41pm.

If the city's inconsistent it's just as wrong as all the reasons I've cried foul here. They won't be blocking the sidewalks, will they?

Based on what little I know of the group I'm hoping the counter-protesters aren't overly offensive. However, the moment that group starts telling us they're demonstrating because Condoms encourage Promiscuity, that Premarital Sex is Immoral, That the women who unfortunately feel this is the choice they need to make are Whores, then I'll be right there with you.

Why, you better go back to beautiful Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Georgia, Tennessee.

Spanky to Our Gang -

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 8:25pm.

Let's put on a show!

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

Solve all the worlds problems?

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 9:23am.

Your reducto absurdum is showing. It's sticking out from behind your rather prominant hypocracy.

Fortunately, I don't need you to stand by me or to help me make this is a safe, welcoming environment. When I see people exercizing the muscles that mobilize bigotry I am going to call them on it. I am also going to give a good snear to any silent, enabling bystanders.

Expecting people to protest prejudice is not asking a little too much...don't ya think? You find my assumptions absurd? I find your dismissiveness rather appalling.

That's great...

Submitted by Rick on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 9:48am.

...I'm happy to hear that NEXT TIME, you're going to try to engage what you perceive as bigotry with a human approach focused on communication and understanding, not indignant bitching about the moderation.

Oh, Gug...

Submitted by Meta Hogan on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 11:55am.

It's a reductio ad absurdum. Your public-school Latin is showing. Mmmpphhh! lol!

Rick...

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 10:14am.

I'm not "bitching" about the moderation. I am expressing my disapointment with the silent members of this community. Thou dost protest too much, methinks.

Sorry...

Submitted by Rick on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 11:05am.

...but I take it personally when others piss on a process that they didn't do much to help in the first place. I tried to create a space in which the parties to this discussion could work their way out of a corner. You stood on the sidelines and cracked jokes.

You needn't take it personally

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 11:29am.

Mike and I settled our differences with private messages instead of the comments. And if expressing disapointment in those defending Mike's comment is pissing, then urine for more of the same the NEXT TIME.

Oh, and one man's joke crack is another man's...well, you get the general idea.

That's all well and good...

Submitted by Rick on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 12:26pm.

...if that's all you can contribute. But, please think twice before disparaging the community at large. It doesn't help include more voices. We really do the best we can to make this an open and inclusive space, and if you have ideas about how to do it better, you're welcome to chime in.

Perhaps noting publicly that you'd communicated via pm's and worked some things out would have been helpful to for everyone to know.

Urine for a spanking

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 9:04pm.

No jokes about erectile functions.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

Oh, Meta...

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 12:24pm.

A hobo just ate my OED.

ooooooh, sick burn

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 2:17pm.

that's messed up, below the belt.

That's what happens

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 2:24pm.

when you go pissin' with the big dogs.

Something to Keep in Mind

Submitted by Glasses on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 2:45pm.

We do not need only to counter-protest, but to support the staff and community members receiving services at Planned parenthood while all this nonsense is happening. I value the fun and ridiculous ways we can counter-protest, but something is lost if we forget the individuals who may be intimidated or upset by the protesters. Planning escorts to and from the clinic, having informational meetings, heck, just smiling and letting them know we care about their right to access health care without harrassment would be beneficial. Believe me, I'll be out there to raise a ruckus, but also to inform and care. Don't forget about the real folks being affected. Also, in regards to the conundrum mentioned about people caring for the marginalized but being pro-choice (remember, not 'anti-life'...there is a difference): We all have different reality tunnels. The set of references and experiences that make up mine are unique to me, and the same with those that make up yours. In my reality tunnel, we have an over-populated planet, a puritanical American society that obsesses over sexuality but then oppresses natural expression thereof, and a floating zygote in a body. In my reality, it is an obligation and a show of love to my planet that I am pro-choice. If our society were more open to sexuality, more open to speaking descriptively instead of prescriptively regarding sexual behaviour (especially in youth), and less judgemental of it, we would see less need for abortion. If a 15 year old girl is going to engage in sex (no matter what societal morality dictates), wouldn't you rather she be able to protect herself from STDs and pregnancy and not have to get an abortion at all? And lord forbid she and other peers engage in the physical yearnings all humans FEEL! I care for the marginalized because they're already here.

Well said

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 3:18pm.

And thanks for the reminder about what this thread is actually about. Sorry for the diversion.

Well said, Indeed. Which is

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 4:10pm.

Well said, Indeed. Which is the very reason I boycott Stormans.

Amen!

Submitted by Norm on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 5:07pm.

I want to bring down porn signs. If they can have pictures of fetus' I want pictures of couples in compromising positions. I say we start one great big sexual revolution right in front of the pro-life folks! Who's with me!@?

Compromising Fetal Positions

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 5:09pm.

yes...

Well

Submitted by Norm on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 5:10pm.

I was gonna go with missionary, but that sounds too Catholic, what'cha think?

Don't start Norm

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 5:11pm.

I'm done with that one.

Isn't the word Protestant

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 7:50pm.

Isn't the word Protestant derived from Protest?

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

Please avoid

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Sat, 09/22/2007 - 9:06pm.

All references to sexual excitement

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

40 days for Life

Submitted by Pro-life Catholic on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 8:07pm.

I am a Catholic, a convert of five years. I used to protest for what appears to be your side of this debate. I've obviously had a change of heart. A few thoughts after stumbling on to this blog:

1) This (40 Days for Life) is to my knowledge a peaceful non-denominational (not just St. Michael Parish) movement of Pro-Life people to gather in prayer for an end to abortion. It is also a movement that is nation wide (not just in Olympia). and 2) It sounds to me that this blog is full of activists for Social Justice who want to express their views however they see the issues. I have a few questions:

Before you tear Karen Rotter's character apart, has anyone tried to talk to Karen and see if she is a fanatic? If she is organizing a peaceful protest to express the views of a group of people; is that any different than what you would do?

And What evidence do you have that any of these people were linked to the fire a the East Side Womens clinic? and When was there ever a doctor killed in Olympia over an abortion?

Accusations solve nothing!!!

3) Mother Teresa spent a life time pulling people off of the streets of Calcutta, cleaning them and nursing them either to health, or to a dignified death. She was the personification of Social Justice (Catholic or non-Catholic). Here is what she had to contribute on the topic of abortion:

"We must not be surprised when we hear of murders, of killings, of wars, of hatred. If a mother can kill her own child, what is left but for us to kill each other." and "Abortion kills twice. It kills the body of the baby and it kills the conscience of the mother. Abortion is profoundly anti-women. Three quarters of its victims are women: Half the babies and all the mothers."

~ Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta ~

And 4) By promoting a violent response to this protest you are proving yourselves every bit the fanatic that you claim these people are.

Dialogue, and peace is the only way to come to understanding. Lets try something new and handle are differences in a peaceful and loving manner, instead of attacking one another and creating more violence. Try understanding instead of slander. Violence begets more violence it's a deadly cycle that will not help either side... Just a few thoughts from someone you might call a "fanatic".

Dialogue, and peace is the

Submitted by DC on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 8:37pm.

I agree with what you've said here. I mentioned it before, but one thing I take issue with some pro-life demonstrators is the use of graphic, full color images depicting abortions.

I think it's in poor taste, lowers the bar, and invites a hostile response.

What do you think?

Graphic Signs

Submitted by Pro-life Catholic on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 9:23pm.

The people who are holding the signs that you find to be in poor taste may just be. However, I have a few thoughts on this: 1) Until the people of the world saw pictures of the Jewish victims of the Nazi regime, they didn't truly understand what was happening. 2)Show the truth also has a sign in front of the PP that says Need help, Need money, Need a bed (something to this effect). Women have taken advantage of this offer and these same people have given the women a home to live in for free while they save money and get themselves on their feet. Go to school, and have great lives with their babies. 3)How many women go down to get an abortion and feel they have any other "choice"? 4)Finally, getting mad at the signs displaces the anger, we should be outraged at what they depict? What do you think?

This is my thread, so I'll bite

Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 11:41pm.

An answer to your questions:

"Before you tear Karen Rotter's character apart, has anyone tried to talk to Karen and see if she is a fanatic?"
Miss Rotter is welcome to join us in discussion here. I'd even buy her a cup of coffee and chat with her in person if she were so inclined.

"If she is organizing a peaceful protest to express the views of a group of people; is that any different than what you would do?"
No different really. I'm even sometimes involved in less-than-peaceful protests.

"And What evidence do you have that any of these people were linked to the fire a the East Side Womens clinic?and When was there ever a doctor killed in Olympia over an abortion?"
I'd like you to point out when someone linked these same protesters with the fire OR murdered doctors, on this blog.

"Mother Theresa, yada yada yada..."
Mother Theresa was no Mother Theresa.

"By promoting a violent response to this protest you are proving yourselves every bit the fanatic that you claim these people are."
Again, please point to any suggestion of a violent response. This blog community would not stand for the suggestion of violence. We are here to create a better community, and violence does not promote that goal.

Congratulations on your newfound faith. I hope that works out well for you. Oh, and welcome to OlyBlog. May we disagree with civility and class.

Answers:

Submitted by Pro-life Catholic on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:51am.

Thanks for joining the discussion... 1) Karen Rotter, is, I'm sure open to discussing the issues that you have in a civil manner. Give it a try, you can find her down by PP. 2) I'm glad you are excersizing your rights to expression under the Constitution under the Freedoms of Speech and Assembly. More of us should enter into this in a civilized way. I may not agree with you but I do respect your passion. 3) You said, "I'd like you to point out when someone linked these same protesters with the fire OR murdered doctors, on this blog." First text entitled 'Fanatics to Attack Planned Parenthood': "To those who would make excuses for this kind of protest: I remind you of the eastside womens clinic fire of a while back. These are not harmless people. They have been known to use violence, murder and intimidation to accomplish their goals." This is at least an insinuation that "these are not harmless people" down at PP, and there may even be a possible link to some of these events. Don't you think? I mean, as far as I know, they never caught the criminal who started the clinic fire. 4) You challenged, "Again, please point to any suggestion of a violent response. This blog community would not stand for the suggestion of violence. We are here to create a better community, and violence does not promote that goal." I'll point out the most obvious threat that I saw on the blog, "Knowing they're filthy (referring to filthy Catholics) sure makes it easier to pull the trigger." Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:34am. 5) Finally, Mother Theresa did more to effect positive change in this world than all of us who banter on this blog will do put together. She was a light in an often sad, dark world. She assisted the sick, and marginalized in the country of India by the millions. I find it hard to buy that you are much of a proponant of Social Justice, if you can so flipantly trivialize her life. She won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979 for her humanitarian work, and for over forty years she ministered to the poor, sick, orphaned, and dying in Kolkata (Calcutta), India. It's sad that all of this holds no merrit for her credibility in matters of Justice on this blog. (I know this is just one bloggers oppinion) Thanks again for sharing. Please continue the dialogue...

Look again

Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 7:49am.

My comment "Knowing they're filthy (referring to filthy Catholics) sure makes it easier to pull the trigger" was a criticism of the person who said catholics were filthy to begin with. The picture I included, if you clicked on the link, was a catholic boy shot by the British during Bloody Sunday.

My point is, that when we dehumanize people it beccomes easier to commit violence agaisnt them.

5)

Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:45am.

MT's mission was to proselytize for religious fundamentalism, for the most extreme interpretation of Catholic doctrine. Some of which included the life threatening practice of teaching people in 3rd world countries that contraception is a sin.

Also, I question her motives as far as money was concerned. I believe she "played poor", and used that image to spread her order of nuns around the world. They are now in something like 120 countries. MT could have been building hospitals for poor people with 10's of millions of dollars given to her, why didn't she? I think because she wanted a legacy, an order of nuns that would be named after her when she was canonized.

Really, my gripes go on and on. You should read some Hitchens on the subject, he lays it out well, although a bit harsh. I'm obviously not going to convince you of any of this as you seem firmly entrenched in her fan club, and that is OK. Everybody needs a hero.

Rob

Submitted by Norm on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:48am.

I can't think of a way to say this kindly: You can only hope to do as much good in your lifetime as that woman did. If I were a gambling man though, I would bet against you.

I'm not going to say it kindly.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:57am.

Bullshit.

Why the hostility against

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 10:02am.

Why the hostility against Mother Theresa? Sure, she was no Princess Di, but be wary of believing the tripe from Jack T. Chick, Alberto Rivera, Christopher Hitchens and their ilk.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

Well

Submitted by Norm on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 10:04am.

when you die, we'll see what kind of a following you have Rob. What kind of people show up to your funeral to show respect.

Now NowJust because Rob

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 10:07am.

Now Now

Just because Rob doesn't have a world following or been on the cover of Maryknoll doesn't mean he's less of a guy.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

I'm not the one belittling

Submitted by Norm on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 10:21am.

I'm not the one belittling the work of a nobel peace prize winner. She's done much

Answers:

Submitted by Pro-life Catholic on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:54am.

Thanks for joining the discussion... 1) Karen Rotter, is, I'm sure open to discussing the issues that you have in a civil manner. Give it a try, you can find her down by PP. 2) I'm glad you are excersizing your rights to expression in the Constitution under the Freedoms of Speech and Assembly. More of us should enter into this in a civilized way. I may not agree with you but I do respect your passion. 3) You said, "I'd like you to point out when someone linked these same protesters with the fire OR murdered doctors, on this blog." First text entitled 'Fanatics to Attack Planned Parenthood': "To those who would make excuses for this kind of protest: I remind you of the eastside womens clinic fire of a while back. These are not harmless people. They have been known to use violence, murder and intimidation to accomplish their goals." This is at least an insinuation that "these are not harmless people" down at PP, and there may even be a possible link to some of these events. Don't you think? I mean, as far as I know, they never caught the criminal who started the clinic fire. 4) You challenged, "Again, please point to any suggestion of a violent response. This blog community would not stand for the suggestion of violence. We are here to create a better community, and violence does not promote that goal." I'll point out the most obvious threat that I saw on the blog, "Knowing they're filthy (referring to filthy Catholics) sure makes it easier to pull the trigger." Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 09/21/2007 - 11:34am. 5) Finally, Mother Theresa did more to effect positive change in this world than all of us who banter on this blog will do put together. She was a light in an often sad, dark world. She assisted the sick, and marginalized in the country of India by the millions. I find it hard to buy that you are much of a proponant of Social Justice, if you can so flipantly trivialize her life. She won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979 for her humanitarian work, and for over forty years she ministered to the poor, sick, orphaned, and dying in Kolkata (Calcutta), India. It's sad that all of this holds no merrit for her credibility in matters of Justice on this blog. (I know this is just one bloggers oppinion) Thanks again for sharing. Please continue the dialogue...

OOPs

Submitted by Pro-life Catholic on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:00am.

Sorry, I answered twice... First few blog entries.

Hi PLC. Welcome to the blog.

Submitted by Norm on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:43am.

Hi PLC. Welcome to the blog. We haven't had a vocal pro-life person in awhile, and certainly not one that is as eloquent. I may not agree with you %100, but you come across very well.

Dialogue

Submitted by Pro-life Catholic on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 10:11pm.

DC, I appreciate your sharing your thoughts on the issue of Graffic Signs. I appreciate the step you took to share your view with me, because I think that too often when we get out in front of PP we like to attack eachother instead of hearing eachother. I'd like to point out that I do understand why you consider the signs to be in poor taste. I am simply trying to give another perspective on the issue, for both you and others to "chew on". Abortion is the antithesis of authentic love. Love says, "I give of myself for the good of another." While abortion says, "I take the life of another for the good of myself."

OK.....I have to say a few words

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 7:34am.

Pro life:

I've observed your posts and I must respond.

A continuing theme within your posts is your religious belief as is the theme of the other protestors at Planned Parenthood. My challenge is this - there are many of the community that don't share your religious belief, those of us to whom a Mother Teresa was another human on the face of the earth that chose to do some good. Many prefer no religious belief whatsoever.

I've been on this earth for 56 years. During my life millions of abortions have been performed, but only legal, safe abortions are protested. Where was this protest before Roe v. Wade? Women died and had all sorts of complications because of the butchery of illegal abortion, yet not a peep was sounded. It was society's dirty little secret. Females were admonished in church because of pregnancies outside of wedlock and today are embraced because a legal and safe remedy is available to them. Where is the justice in that?

Planned Parenthood teaches birth control first. What does the church teach? We all know the results that abstinence teaching brings.

If you'd like to protest, try protesting the number of neglected children in our community that don't have an adult to spend a few hours a week with them. If you send me a private message, I can tell you how to do it.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

To Add To Larry's Comment

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:54am.

I'd also suggest they protest the number of abused & neglected children in our community that end up in foster care, some permanently. At least those who had abortions didn't give birth to children they knew they might ultimately end up neglecting and abusing. Our foster care system is overburdened and there are children needing safe homes from parents who physically, mentally and emotionally abuse them on a daily basis. Those who can't escape the abuse and fall through the cracks are the vey ones who end up on the wrong path and pregnant because they want somebody to care for and love them and the cycle begins all over again.

Foster care and Big Brothers/Big Sisters are way more important topics and reasons to protest than abortion clinics. And you don't need horrible pictures of aborted fetuses to make your point with foster care and BB/BS.

I believe a woman's body is her's to make whatever choices she believes are right for her. A woman's body does not belong any other men or women who think they have the right to make decisions for her. Her choices are between she and her God, not she and the Pro-Life Advocates.

Obviously, I'm Pro-Choice.

"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown

I would like to thank my

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 10:05am.

I would like to thank my Mom. For the first nine months of my existence she kept the law off of my body.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

Long thread

Submitted by Rick on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:32am.

I'll open an open thread to continue this conversation.

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