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Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 11/30/2007 - 5:32pm.
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Get a Mac...

Or at least turn your Windoze box into a Linux box. 

 

Am running Fedora Core on a six year old Dell laptop, and am getting excellent usage out of it.  I am hard pressed at this time to want to upgrade to a faster machine... 

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I am running XP and it's ok.

I thought Win2K was pretty robust and stable.  I have built a few linux machines and I think they are much more robust and stable than MS stuff generally, but I have never been able to make the transition to linux.  I still hope to some day.  Microsoft represents the triumph of competitive economics over sound engineering.  They can flex economic muscle and make it difficult for other technologies to remain standing, but their commitment to end-user satisfaction is secondary to their General Motors model of marketing a new model every few years with new bells and whistles that we just can't live without. 

And this is starting to worry me, two posts from S6 in one day that I agree with.   

 

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Xp is ok.

You're right about that. Linux is lovely if you have a seeing eye nerd handy to keep everything going ok (I am a software developer and I write everything on linux first before porting to other platforms).

If I could.. I would easily get every consumer a mac. Not because of all the usability crap everyone talks about(which by the way is totally true), but because of the licensing issues tied into M$ and all the overhead cpu cycles that get wasted with antivirus software.. antimalware.. and the usual round of Blue Screens(kernel panics).

It gets to be too much after awhile to get detracted from productivity on a machine to begin wondering "am i rootkitted? is my virus scanner up to date? whay does abc virus scanner tell me i'm clean.. when def virus scanner say that i have nasties? Where is the malware hiding? Why do these wierd splash screens popup for everything?"

That kind of stuff makes consumers think that computers are witchcraft and voodoo.. and makes life Hell on tech support.

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.
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That's really funny!It still

That's really funny!

It still boils down to, at least with me, the price of an entry level mac is kind of steep. Apple almost feels "elitist" at times. I wish they'd come up with a better alternative for the budget impaired potential customer.

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Try this

The Mac Mini

Two models starting at $599 

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My problem

I already own a pc, one that has been upgraded numerous times in 10 years. If I were to buy a new pc, I would probably spend $250-$300 on parts and have a pretty darn good pc running. If I buy a mac mini I need to either buy a switch, or a new monitor. THEN I need to buy a keyboard and mouse (no biggie) investment in an external hard drive would be a good idea as well. Apple just doesn't make it easy for an entry level machine. As it stands, if you are new to this, you will buy the mac mini ($600) plus a monitor ($150, at least) and peripherals ($50'ish) plus tax.

I appreciate the info though. I've been looking into getting one for awhile, just complaining.

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Yeah, but

You can use your existing PC monitor, keyboard, etc...  an external hard drive is a choice you would make on any machine and would be either USB or Firewire...

Personally I think now that Apple has gone Intel, the only real great thing they have going for them is their OS.  I've always been an Apple fan, but now that they have a UNIX based OS, and an Intel platform,  I believe that a properly setup Linux system on a PeeCee would be just as good.  Granted, Linux is still not quite user friendly in all fashions, but is getting there. 

But if you want the Mac Mini, you are only out the cost of the base unit and can add your monitor, etc...

 

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You're damned right

You're damned right about Apple's desktop success being in the platform rather than the hardware.

I've successfully plopped the hacked version of osX on two non-apple machines now (you'll get yours Rob when I build a stable hackintosh).. and the intel based celeron and p4 with 10.5.1 run laps around my ol' G4 tower.

PPC is awesome for development and midrange servers.. Apple was in the right to move consumers to Intel machines.. PLUS you can run Vmware Fusion(drool).

Nontechnical stuff aside.. the only way to be serious about computing is by running osX... which is so wierd.. because the trend was exactly the opposite about 8 years ago...

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.
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desktop

Dell & HP have good starter units that rival/surpass the Mini, and I'd look at the holiday special at Shuttle for this years blowout on XPCs...they have one for $650 that is pretty good. I started with Dell's basic mini-ATX tower & pumped it up-- --then did the same with HP, and the HP 1677 is the bomb for the a $600 unit-- I'd pull the stock Vista SATA & use a XP Pro SATA I have already until 2GB RAM drops to under $50 per stick, at the end of the Vista run max the RAM to 4GB and go Vista Ultimate Pro... Or maybe VM Ware Dual-Boot Winodws & Linux like they do at the Oly FreeGeek. check out the Shuttle >cheers<
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Cute

But out of context.

You can complain all you'd like about Vista and how one might suffer from Vista related problems.  But, in the end, you are just as responsible for Vista not working, in most cases.  Exceptions exist and Microsoft shares responsibility.  So do PC vendors and 3rd party device drivers.

Why?

While there are many reasons Vista may not work on a particular PC, ultimately the end user has a responsibility to evaluate their personal situation.  As an open platform, unlike Apple, Microsoft caters to the world.  By this I mean you have an endless number of choices when deciding what video, audio, network, TV tuner, what have you, driver you want to install.  But, if you don't do your homework and determine the viability of these products how can you possibly bellyache?  We provide pre-install routines that will check compatibility in advance and quite often the warnings of incompatible hardware are ignored.  Buyer beware.  Software is subject to human error as is any development of a product.

Let's take Norm as an example if we could.  You have no business (not personal) running Vista on hardware that is 10 years old, period.  Why anyone would consider running Vista on hardware that old is beyond me.  How many different cell phones have you owned in 10 years?  A cell phone OS, whether it is Symbian (Nokia and others) or Windows Mobile, or any other OS that runs phones (yes, OS'es run phones), is a very small amount of code relative to a PC OS.

Consider the effort that Microsoft makes to accept the plethora of hardware in the Windows market and the time that it takes to test this hardware.  We do it because we can, and should.  We also do it because it is the right thing to do.  Not all vendors subscribe to our processes and they suffer as a result.  This is where Vista fails to perform and Microsoft should make no excuse here.  We provide an approved HCL (Hardware Compatibility List) for Vista and while it is strict, it is not unreasonable.  Troubleshooting problems related to incompatible hardware is not cheap yet we do it on a daily basis and submit the results back to the vendors through proven methods.  What the vendor decides to fix is up to them.  We do all we can to assist in these efforst and no doubt lose money while doing it.  Should we?  Of course, but it is not without sacrifice.

I run Vista SP1 (beta) on a Lenovo T60p 64-bit machine running a 64-bit Vista OS.  I've been running this setup for nearly a year without any problems.  No blue screens.  No crashes.  The reason I don't have problems is because I'm serious about stability and ensure non-Micorosft software is up to the task.  Do you?  I know the machine I have is capable of performing under these conditions.  Do you?

I'm not trying to absolve Microsoft of its duty as a platform.  We make mistakes and we concentrate on rectifying those mistakes.  You might see this every Tuesday (when necessary) if you enable Automatic Updates.  If you choose not to enable these updates or decline to install needed updates it is your fault for not managing your computer as needed.  If you continue to have problems and have supported hardware it is either a bug or a configuration problem.  You won't be charged for calling support and submitting what turns out to be a Microsoft bug.  You will be charged if it turns out to be a configuration problem.  You won't be charged if the problem can be tied back to a 3rd party bug.  What more do you want?

Don't reply with half-ass jabs.  If you have a serious problem on Vista I can help and WILL help.  Just let me know the details and I'll be happy to direct you to a solution or the proper channels to get you help.

The Apple ads are funny.  They are also very dishonst.  What Apple won't tell you is that Vista also runs on MAC's and may suffer from the same problems that you see on PC's.  What I can't get past is that Apple is so tied up in mocking Microsoft they forget to talk about the positives of their closed platform.  Go figure. 

   

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Uh

lil defensive don'tcha think? Vista actually runs really well for me, I never said I disliked it, only that I'd like to buy a mac. What S6, and you as well, aren't taking into account is that the mac would be a second home computer, not the replacement.  My computer "case" is close to 10 years old. I've replaced the power supply in it 3 times, I've replaced the mobo 3 or 4 times along with the processor, I've gone through NUMEROUS hard drives. I'm currently running with an AMD (one more reason I haven't broken down and bought a mac, I'm not an intel fan) 64 3200, 2gigs of ram, an nvidia 7600gt vid card and 350gig hard drive. It seems to run vista just fine.
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Well

Build a second PeeCee box and run Linux on it.  Then you'll achieve a true state of happiness. 
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Not Defensive

Just being honest and complete.  You've made my point about being an open system with all the upgrading you've done.  You couldn't have done this on a MAC.  You didn't give details about the upgrades you've made.  The only thing I had to go on was your statement about running Vista on a machine that was 10 years old.
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Hackintosh

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Pengiun Power

Linux offers as many if not more solutions than M$.  Plus has the advantage of being built for nearly every computer system out there.  Vista will run on a Mac, but only with special software behind it.  Microsoft routinely ignores older hardware that does not fit it's current view of how the world should compute, while Linux developers can and do provide for hardware many years after it's introduction. 

Case in point, I am running a 5 year old Dell Inspiron 2600.  I was able to install a recent version of the Fedora Core on this older system, which coupled with a new wifi device allows me a greater level of function than I would get out of Vista.  Windoze machines tend to be trapped with the version of Windows that came out with them, whereas Linux users can choose from a wide variety of user interfaces, depending on preference and hardware capabilities. 

I challenge you to take my machine and get it to run Vista, whereas I have already shown I can run the latest 32 bit Linux Core on my machine and custom tailor the interface to my tastes and hardware.   

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Vista will run on a Mac, but

Vista will run on a Mac, but only with special software behind it.

Check your facts on this one.

I challenge you to take my machine and get it to run Vista...

Challenge?  It's not a challenge, it's likely unsupported.  Take the challenge yourself - Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor 1.0.

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One mistake I made

I stopped following Mac a couple of years ago, and keep forgetting that they use Intel chipsets. I'm still stuck in PPC world... Sorry.

 

Of course my machine is unsupported, that's the point. If I wanted to keep running Windoze, I would be trapped with XP. With Linux I can continue to use my machine, and use it to the full extent of it's capabilities. It runs faster and better with Fedora on it than it ever did with Windoze.

Microsoft expects everyone to rush out and get new hardware everytime they dump some beta test quality OS on the unsuspecting public. With Linux you get a highly secure, stable and widely supported OS, that will keep older systems running longer and better, or increase the experience of a new system. I'm looking forward to the day I can dump this POS I have and get a nice 64 bit system running a top end linux.

Plus there is a larger knowledge base of the workings of Linux than there ever is with Windoze. With freely open code, and the ability to compile the kernel to the individual system, you have more flexibility.

If you are a programer you can contact a developer who actually cares about his product and inform them of a bug you have found, or even write the patch yourself and submit it.

Of course you already know the advantages of Open Source, so I will not rehash them here. I have just gotten into Linux, and am loving it more every day. I'm even dusting off my old programming skills again.

 

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Dream Scenario

I shouldn't have been so rigid, I apologize, I could have given you a link without being a smart ass.  My apologies.

If we could, let's keep it mutual and call it Windows.

I don't think of it as being trapped.  XP is a great operating system.  So much so that public demand changed our thoughts on sustained engineering of the product.  We do listen!  We can agree to disagree if you feel differently - I'm not here to change your mind.

As for my subject line you are a dream scenario.  You found what works best for you and have embraced it.  Nothing wrong with that.  It's not a matter of us telling you to rush out and buy the latest and greatest.  We offer a feature-set with each release that is unique or different in many ways to our previous release.  The choice to change still remains your decision and if you venture outside of Microsoft for your operating system, so be it.

Open source has its advantages for sure.  Microsoft has turned the corner in this arena and continues to improve on its image in the public.  We have open source code in several of our products but still require changes to be channeled through Microsoft to prevent against regressions and the potential for malicous code.  Any *nix component owner does the same but at a smaller scale.

Microsoft isn't going away and your impression of our status in the market is contrary to adoption rates.  The proof is in the numbers.  Just ask Gartner -- and believe me, they'll find any reason to pit us against the public when they can.

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Don't apologize

Too much ass kissing and pussy footing going around here of late.

I must assume you work for "Them" :-)

Honestly, I have never been a fan of Windows, or just about any other MS software. I even used FreeDOS and DRDOS back in the day as soon as I could.  

I have noticed that for the last couple of product cycles MS has continued to support the older software.  Part of this to me anyway seems that the new OS is buggy or won't run on a lot of older systems, or people have too much invested in the older stuff.

I've used Vista a couple of times, and it weirded me out.  

I used to do tech support for AOL, so have plenty of experience with unpopular software :-) 
At any rate, I can honestly say I have never paid money for anything from MS.  Rare, but true.

I'm glad to see that you can defend your products with skill and enthusiam.  I sell things and do the same.

It may be that Norm could benifit from a dual boot Vista/Linux box...   

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Social Contract Negotiations

Even after 10 years with "them" I have complaints.  I really don't sell, per se, but I do have a hand in making sure what we do sell is executed within our statement of work to satisfy contractual obligations.

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Ahh....

You are one of "Them" for "Them"  :-)

I am almost at the point of buying an XBox 360.  I'll give this to MS, they have usually made good hardware and games. 
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Not for Me

Really not for our family.  My son is now 8 and we bought an XBOX 360 last Christmas for the family, not just him.  We returned it a day later because the support for XBOX (non-360) games was crap.  Yeah, crap.  Just one of our several XBOX games worked on the 360 after flashing it with the emulation software to run original XBOX games.

Wii now own a competing game system as a result of our dissatisfaction with Microsoft's efforts and I'm happy to say it was the right decision.  No more than 30 minutes a day unless it's educational and Nintendo has done a great job of standing firm against violence based games. 

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Nintendo

Finally, something we can agree on.
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My resident evil 4 Wii

My resident evil 4 Wii edition would disagree with the non-violence part. It's even rated M for intenense violence, blood and gore, and language....great game :)
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I don't expect them to

I don't expect them to simply ignore a market.  I like that I can look at the new release list or their entire library and find very few games like Resident Evil.
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Just one of our several XBOX

Just one of our several XBOX games worked on the 360 after flashing it with the emulation software to run original XBOX games.

Originally "Halo 2" wasn't even going to be backward compatible.

This was a big reason Playstation 2 was so big. I can't think of a single PSX (the real abbreviation for the original Playstation; PSOne was the smaller console which was released later) game that didn't work on PS2.

Microsoft, on the other hand...

Also, I say this as a former XBox and current 360 owner. The reason I didn't get into Playstation was that it's so single-player oriented. And then once Sony figured out a huge draw was online gaming, they made the mistake of allowing 56K connections to get on. With XBox Live you needed to be on a cable connection.

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I have wanted to give Norm a double boot a few times.

Let me know if we get that scheduled. 
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tips for XP Pro on Mac?

Got Mac, Windows, and Linux...looking for tips about XP Pro on Mac
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Mine

works.
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Thank you.

Thank you.
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