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Submitted by Tschida on Mon, 01/28/2008 - 4:19pm.

Read this and found that Mr. D'Souza makes the case more clearly and more convincingly that I am able.

Read the entire article here

 

From the column "Actually Bush Didn't Lie"

 

"Two leftist organizations have released a study that claims that the Bush administration lied about Iraq. Somehow I think we've heard that one before. Well, the two groups--the Center for Public Integrity and the Fund for Independence in Journalism--managed to secure major media attention by making the claim that the Bush administration released 935 false statements. Clearly no one was in the mood to read all 935, so the leftist groups boiled them down to 532. We hear that on 532 occasions the Bush administration claimed that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction. So the claim is not that Bush told 532 lies, but that he told the same lie 532 times.



But consider this: If Bush actually knew that Iraq didn't possess weapons of mass destruction, and yet repeatedly told the American people that Iraq had them, didn't Bush expect that following the Iraq invasion his deception would be found out? When I raise this point with liberals on campus, they typically say, "Well, we're not saying that Bush knew for sure that there were no such weapons. We are saying that his administration stacked the data." But this is another way of saying that Bush actually believed that there were those weapons, and he mobilized whatever evidence he could muster to make his case. This may reflect prejudice against Saddam Hussein's motives or even imprudent decision making but it is hardly proof of lying..."

 

The column is not all that long and it really does a fine job of refuting the nonsense that goes around 

pretending to be truth. 

 

Enjoy. 

C.  

»

To be fair,

the study D'Souza cites does not say the Bush adminstration actually lied. The Center claims that the administration orchastrated an effort to lead us into the war and they identified the number and timing of false (incorrect) statements used in that orchistration. One cannot conclude from the Center's report that Bush actually lied to get us into the war. Lies of ommission perhaps.

Peace.

»

Caught in a lie?

But consider this: If Bush actually knew that Iraq didn't possess weapons of mass destruction, and yet repeatedly told the American people that Iraq had them, didn't Bush expect that following the Iraq invasion his deception would be found out?

Why would being found out be of any real concern to Bush, Cheney, et al?  Any politician who's made it to the upper stratosphere of Washington DC politics has had plenty of experience dodging the truth of their actions when necessary, and they're good at it.  Maybe this sounds like cynicism, but considering that they have been caught in this elaborate tangle of deceptions and haven't suffered so much as a slap on the wrist, I don't know why anyone familiar w/ GW's history would even ask that question.

»

I'm not lying until you prove I'm lying

wasn't this addressed in another blog?

»

Whether or not Bush et al lied

is another issue. I'm just talking aobut how D'Souza mischaracterizes the Center study.
»

I think you are playing word games...

You said "The Center claims that the administration orchastrated an effort to lead us into the war and they identified the number and timing of false (incorrect) statements used in that orchistration." I understand that the people who conducted the so called study and we as ordinary citizens can not know the minds of President Bush and Vice President Cheney, but your quote leaves very little room for any other conclusion. People do not orchistrate the truth, people don't generally have to time the truth, (though with issues of secrecy and national security at risk, that may not be entirely correct. I for one do not believe that Mr.D'Souza is mischaracterizing anything, rather I am getting the clear feeling that you would rather convolute the issue with word play. It's too bad. C.
»

Sorry you think I'm lieing

Clearly whether or not the Bush administration actually "orchastrated" us into the war is a matter of debate. I am sorry D'Souza did not aim his considerable intelect at that issue instead aiming to the lowest common denominator of his audience. False statements are an emprical question, not a poitical one. The Center study clearly characterizes the statement that way, not lies. D'Souza took the low road on this one. He played the word game, not me.
»

The thing is though,

I specifically broke down your statement, albeit short and perhaps some what off handed, and took issue with it. I explained why I said what I did. I did enjoy your subtle insult of appealing to the lowest common denominator. That was smooth. Mr. Richards, I am sorry did you offer something constructive there? I could not find it. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

I didn't mean it as an insult

I think D'Souza's audience is primarily interested in his polemics, so he tends to write that way. But, yes, I was needlessly confrontational. I should have just said that the real point of debate about the Center article is the premise that the administration orchastrated us into war. They don't provide any support for that premise.
»

Not to pick a fight...

I don't buy for a moment that Mr D'Souza is primarily interested in his 'polemics' and thus writes that way. I would say Michael Savage is this way, and thus writes this way. Mr.D'Souza is much more mature, measured, and really just above that. Look at his debates with Christopher Hitchens on the topic of religion to see what I am saying. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

No fight

What I mean is that I believe the polemical interests of his audience sometimes influences his product (like this particular effort). It's an opinion, I know. I don't mean to say he is primarily interested in polemtics. I enjoy D'Souza's more measured work.
»

Got cha...

Good to know. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

...

»

So,

You "do not believe that Mr.D'Souza is mischaracterizing anything", because he agrees with you, and Gug chose to "convolute the issue with word play" because he disagrees with you?

Gug reads these kinds of studies for a living, he disseminates information and presents reports to people the governor and the state Senate (no matter what party is in office in case you were thinking it was a partisan job). The point is that Gug wouldn't come on here and convolute something so that his opinion looks more true. You should trust that Gug will stick to rules of logic and look at information at face value, without skewing it to fit into some partisan argument.

image
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