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Hijacked

Submitted by Keith Hufnagel on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 8:49pm.

Outside "security" hijacked the dead prez concert due to lack of police presence at that event, and outside "anarchists" hijacked mayday due to the lack of policy enforcement there as well. TESC responded to the concert riot by banning concerts instead of recognizing their lack of professional presence, and Olympia outcasted the goals of the mayday event instead of acknowledging the wolves in sheeps' clothing. Everybody can do better.

Keith Hufnagel's blog
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What 'outside' security at

Submitted by Just another voice on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 9:12pm.

What 'outside' security at the dead prez concert? The security at the concert were student staff.
And TESC didn't ban concerts, they put a moratorium on them until they could figure out how to not have this type of situation happen again. That doesn't sound unreasonable at all. They recently lifted the ban (last week) and now have a new process for evaluating concerts and large events for security. They did a pretty good job of responding and gathering work groups.

But I am Just Another Voice

Just Another Voice

Submitted by Keith Hufnagel on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 9:58pm.

By 'outside security' I mean non-badges, and you bet your badger that they were inadequately trained. TESC cut corners and provided poorly trained security who felt the need to start a fight over a smoking violation. You bet your badger TESC did a good job responding...and for a good reason. Sending one female officer to a fight is a violation in itself. Nothing against women, just procedure. The ban was unconstitutional because freedom of speech was violated in a last-minute attempt by TESC to amend the situation by temporarily banning concerts even though simply holding concerts was not the problem.

Huh? I didn't see anything

Submitted by Just another voice on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 10:53pm.

Huh?

I didn't see anything unconstitutional about having student event planners consult with administrators before events were to be held while the moratorium was underway. No one was ever barred from having an event, they were simply asked to come to more planning meetings and to assist the admins in working out specific details of events.

TESC didn't cut corners. Who would have forseen 200+ students flipping a cop car at 1AM on a Wednesday? It shouldn't have happened, but it did. TESC learned from it, and now new event procedures are in place.

But I am Just Another Voice

In all fairness,

Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 8:02am.

200+ people did not flip a cop car. Most likely it was a handful of people who did the most damage.

True, and that's why the

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 8:24am.

True, and that's why the Prosecutor isn't charging 200+ people but rather only a handful.

You can blow out a candle / But you can't blow out a fire / Once the flames begin to catch / The wind will blow it higher

Why

Submitted by security_six on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 8:08am.

Are people so quick to jump on perceived free speech violations at TESC, yet can quite readily accept the blatant violation of the right to bear arms for person defense, which is also so very, very carefully spelled out and protected in this state's constitution?

Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"

Steve

Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 8:26am.

Everybody has a thing they're passionate about. Yours is guns, their's is something else. It's gonna be OK.

To clarify the First

Submitted by Meta Hogan on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 8:48am.

To clarify the First Amendment thing...

(EDIT: this is in response to "The ban was unconstitutional because freedom of speech was violated in a last-minute attempt by TESC to amend the situation by temporarily banning concerts...")

Sorry, ever since my days at the CPJ (where I was frequently accused of violating someone's 1st Am rights by not publishing their stuff), I can't let sloppiness like this slide. The 1st reads like this:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

It does not require an individual, institution, organization, business or media outlet to use their resources to project your expression. So, if TESC decided there would be no more student events, ever, that would have very little to do with the 1st Amendment (albeit a lot to do with crummy policy that would probably affect enrollment rates). OTOH, if TESC decided that you couldn't say the word "hillary" on campus, there might be a lawyer who would take your case. The difference? Their auditorium vs. your mouth.

The press is where people usually get hung up. Your rights in this arena include the right to publish your own stuff, and the right for folks to get together and publish whatever they want to, without getting prohibited by congress. Whether it's "our" student newspaper, "our" local daily, or even "our" OlyBlog, the 1st protects those who operate it from government interference. It does not dictate that the press must publish everything written by everyone, nor does it mandate that media outlets must be fair in their policies or the execution thereof. Oh, and the 1st is only about your freedom to express; it is inarguably mum on your right to be listened to. My ears, your mouth.

I know it doesn't sound as juicy as it could, and there aren't a lot of gimmes, but that's why it's called exercising your rights. And you can't do that unless you have a pretty clear idea of what they are.

Thanks for this

Submitted by Just another voice on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 8:57am.

Thanks for this contribution.

But I am Just Another Voice

Problem is

Submitted by security_six on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 12:43pm.

TESC is state funded, so there are very few restrictions that can be put into place on public property. Also, the State Constitution is even broader than the federal...

SECTION 5 FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Every person may freely speak, write and publish on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right.

That said, I wonder if TESC could even impose a temporary moratorium on concerts. Now they may be able to restrict use/access of buildings, but I wonder if they could impose any limit for say Red Square...

Remember this is a state funded institution, funded with public money. This is not a private institution that can pick and choose who has access to the land, and can broadly restrict what goes on there...

Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"

Evergreen owns its property

Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 1:20pm.

All state schools in Washington State do. Each school's Board of Trusties or Regents empowers the administration to exercise considerable control over it's domain. So, no, Red Square is not like a public sidewalk.

They are still a public institution

Submitted by security_six on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 3:18pm.

And funded by the state. All the protections of the state constitution should especially apply there.

If they don't like it, quit taking public money and become private. They can no more limit free speech than they can refuse to take a student of color.

Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"

The property rights and authority of state schools are a matter

Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 4:04pm.

of statute. You don't have a right to be on the school's property. At least I am not sure where that right is enumerated.

I never said that right was enumrated

Submitted by security_six on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 4:31pm.

I said as a publicly funded instution all the protections of the state constitution should apply.

Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"

Well, then I guess I can just go hang out in any classroom

Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 7:50pm.

...

Mebbe so

Submitted by security_six on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 8:23pm.

I'm not aware of any laws prohibiting it...

So do you believe that a publicly funded college can restrict or deny a student's constitutional rights?

Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"

Well, the front lawn of the

Submitted by Just another voice on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 8:53pm.

Well, the front lawn of the white house is also public property, but you can't hang out on it. Anyone can be restricted entry into a public building because of security.

But I am Just Another Voice

try it...

Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 9:51pm.

I've said what I can.

I would argue

Submitted by security_six on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 8:41pm.

That a person authorized to be at a school, cannot surrender any of their constitutional rights as a condition of being part of that school. IIRC there is a statute in this state that says one cannot sign away any preexisting rights. I'm not sure how broad it is though.

Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"

Cf. this with the

Submitted by Meta Hogan on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 8:33pm.

Cf. this with the conversation on what you can do on public (state) property here. Anyone feel differently about these two situations?

2luce

Submitted by Keith Hufnagel on Wed, 05/28/2008 - 9:35pm.

After busting my side bombing harrison I should know better than to try to ride such a slippery slope. Simply shuldve referred to the action as a "blanket ban" instead of "unconstitutional". Furthermore, I meant "revolt" not "riot". Doesn't a "riot" mean abuse between "people"????

lawyers or DMs?

Submitted by chad360 on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 3:25pm.

ya-all missed yer callings fer sure!

LOL

Submitted by security_six on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 8:42pm.

As I sit here working on an elven mage in MUME....

Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"

"time to roll up an elf"

Submitted by chad360 on Thu, 05/29/2008 - 12:11pm.

...is an inside joke in our group, so thanks for acknowledging the geek humor =)

Heh

Submitted by security_six on Thu, 05/29/2008 - 6:29pm.

For what it's worth I have a level 11 elven mage, mebbe become a battle mage. Dunno yet.

I haven't played D&D in years, but am slowly easing back into RPG's...

One of these days when I finish rearanging stuff in my boat I'd be happy to provide a game location if you want.

Some even call me mad! And why? Because I dared to dream …of my own race of atomic monsters! Atomic supermen with octagonal-shaped bodies that suck blood out of...--Professor Farnsworth

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