Jeff Kingsbury

I have disagreed with Jeff on many things over the years. I have been angry and disappointed about decisions he has made, I was a part of a civil disobedience that spawned a tent city because of Jeff's vote on a sidewalk ordinance. But never, in all of my active years in this community have I or anyone I align myself with ever thought it would be OK to target Jeff's sexuality. This, like throwing a rock through a window, does nothing to further civil discourse. These kinds of actS only divide us.

There have been many issues over the last few years that have divided our community. Conference centers, sidewalk ordinances, RV parking bans, noise ordinances, nuclear subs, nuclear free zones, port protests, etc. All of this focus on division is destroying us. If we don't find some common ground, nothing we do will ever revitalize our city. We are entering into a period of great uncertainty and perhaps very tough economic times. The one thing that will get us through it is a strong community where the members stand by one another.

In interpretations of the Chinese language, the symbol for 'crisis' is comprised of two symbols, one meaning danger, the other meaning opportunity. I see this as two divergent paths before us.

The dangerous path is one where we let this heinous act go as if it were nothing, as if because Jeff is a public figure he should expect or deserves this kind of treatment. That response, I fear, would open the door to more hateful actions and even violence in our community. Violence like the kind that took place outside of Jake's a few weeks ago, when a group of gay men were attacked by a group of straight men amidst homophobic slurs.

The opportunity that we have is to pull together as a community, and not only to support Jeff, but to send a strong and clear message to the perpetrators of these acts that they are weak, that they have no power over Jeff or anyone else in our community, and that we do not, no matter who it's directed against or how we feel about them personally or politically, tolerate hate speech or crimes in our community. We do this not because we magically agree with Jeff all of a sudden, in fact we shouldn't do for Jeff at all, we do it for ourselves, our neighbors, our children, for the future of our community, and because hate has no place here.

Comments

Let's defang this thing by turning it into a game of Clue

I say it was the Fundie Xian in the basement with a Gateway computer and his Church's mailing list.

I say it was the clueless

I say it was the clueless anarchist at Media Island with an old phone book and an unidentified PC (all corporate logos covered up with black dots).

Well said, Rob.

Well said, Rob.

This ugly stunt has many potential pernicious consequences.

I agree with Thad's comment that, in addition to being a repugnant thing to do, the postcard is

"a stupid and unproductive tactic politically - if it's got any 'political' intentions at all. In Olympia, I think it will make a lot more voters feel like supporting him than it will turn against him."

The outpouring of sympathy and support for Jeff, even from those who oppose his policies and general behaviors on the City Council, seems pretty predictable in this community.  Therefore I don't think we can rule out the possibility that at least one intent of the stunt was exactly that -- to rally the community in his defense, for whatever reason.

However much people on this blog, and elsewhere, might be kidding around when they start speculating about who might have done it, I want to say that I'm really uncomfortable with this. I've heard that at least one Councilmember has already accused at least one Olympia activist who has opposed Kingsbury on various issues. This also may have been an intent of the postcard stunt: to get people accusing one another.

This is problematic for so many reasons, including the likelihood that many people may now feel less inclined to oppose Kingsbury for his policies or criticize him for his behaviors on the Council. This has an especially pernicious implication in light of the Council's anticipated finalization of the isthmus rezone, despite the mandated park feasibility study, and the urgent need for citizens to speak out now more than ever.

Whodunnit

Has anyone mentioned the possibility that someone associated with Triway Enterprises might bear responsibility for the postcard?











Is there an image of the card

available anywhere? It might help someone figure out whodoneit.

a game of clue.

it's seems totally plausible that somebody could just be trying to create a divide between within the community like drew has suggested. it also sounds really plausible that jeff k or someone who supports him could have done it to create a more favorable environment for him. i don't believe that it was the nihilist assault group as that was humorous and this is not. it probably wasn't some activist or somebody like that as it is totally contrary to common sense. it doesn't really matter who it was, it's a dumb stunt. anyone who is disgusted with this should take the time everyday to confront hate and bigotry in the community whenever the chance arises and move on. that's my personal opinion. also, by the way. did anyone else notice that on the Olympian facebook article they say that JK called somebody or some persons "idiots" and continues to say that it was somebody who "doesn't agree with our policies". then he defends himself by saying that he was referring to moses because of his crazy speech about the end of the world. but how could he be talking about moses' speech if he says on his post that it's somebody who doesn't agree. it doesn't add up to me.

Carry Coals to Newcastle

Create conflict in Olympia

Conflict of Ethics

Although there seems to be a conflict in giving the anonymous perpetrator more publicity vs. giving the general public more clues, I will solidly side with the latter. Remember, the only reason the Unabomber was caught was due to his peculiar use of English phrases in his Manifesto, which was recognized by his brother. I would urge any of you who have possession of a copy of this offending document to post it here on OlyBlog. We might be able to help nab the person or persons who are guilty of this crime. It has been established on this blog that Jeff (who is certainly no darling of the Progressives in spite of his rhetoric) has been treated unfairly and in a cowardly manner, so sharing the offending document with the rest of us in this context should not be a big deal. The more information we have, the better. Give us info, man. 

 

 

 

Twice seconded (thanks guys)

Please give up with the goods, O those of you who possess such a treasure of sleaziness, so that the rest of us can get to work.

I don't agree at all

If Jeff Kingsbury wanted to have it spread all over the net he could certainly have posted it and asked people to analyze it. Otherwise, I think spreading it around further comes pretty close to helping mail it out in the first place, and I really don't think people should do it. If he wanted to use the addresses to try to figure out what mailing list was used, he could ask for them or ask people to try doing that.

After thinking about this for quite a while, I did try earlier in this thread to provide the most neutral plain description of the contents I could come up with - because it seemed as if everybody's fantasies about what it might have said were just getting projected onto that unknown paragraph as long as what it said remained a mystery. I think broadcasting it, complete with nasty puns, is not the same, and I really don't think people should do it.

Thad

Best wishes,
Thad

 

More Power or Not?

It seems to boil down to this: Would making the contents public give the person who mailed it more power or not?

The document has become part of the public discourse, but most of us have not seen it. How are we supposed to reach any verdict without evidence? Personally, I have faith that putting this postcard out in the light of day will not only diminish the message of the mailer, but could be a key to identifying him/her.

This is no longer just about Jeff anymore. With all due respect to him, the card needs to be made public.

 

 

 

 

 

 

postal = federal

Well, sending any mail is a federal scene, and as for the hate, Jeff spews as much as he gets-

 

chad360

i have to weigh in again!

about the campaign contribution stuff. whether or not the contributions are meant to give favorable policies or these guys are just friends, wouldn't it make sense to back down after all of the overwhelming opposition. meeting after meeting after meeting they continue to push even though everybody keeps showing up and speaking out. why do they continue to push? why are they continuing to make unpopular choices? it certainly interesting.

The Council members

supporting the rezone are doing so because they feel (rightly or wrongly) the Amendment to the Comp plan is best for the city, not because Triway kicked their campaigns $250.00 to a $1,000.00. Then there is the matter of the two council members supporting the rezone untainted by Triway money.

Oh well, speculation and innuendo sure are fun.

Let's not turn this into a witchhunt

Just as I was upset when a councilmember unfairly accused someone of being the postcard terrorist (someone who, by the way has worked for anti-discrimination laws on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity), I think it's unfair to accuse Triway with no basis.

getting to the bottom of it

If Jeff is really serious about suing whomever did this, then it would make sense to publicize the card, because you're right, Gug - the more eyes on this, the more likelihood that someone will recognize clues to point toward whodunnit.

However, how can someone ask the victim in a situation like this to publicize the offending material? I don't know how Jeff feels about this incident, except that I have heard he is angry. But if he feels traumatized at all, wouldn't publicizing the card just add to the trauma that Jeff may already feel?











Do we know that this wasn't

Do we know that this wasn't humorous? I have not heard or read the text. My only access to the text of this thing is what the Daily O chose to quote. It would be nice if someone posted it. I'm a little slow to pick up a pitchfork and hunt down homophobes when the reports of homophobia are fourth-hand. contron, I do agree that the Facebook thing is still very questionable, and commend you for your long memory.

Ditto

man, ditto. Also it would be helpful to know the addresses these cards were mailed to.

Good Point

I agree, it should be up to Jeff.

If he wants to identity the perpetrator, then it would make sense to publicize as much information as possible. His comments in The Olympian were to the effect that he wants to find the culprit and pursue restitution. Maybe he was, at that point, reacting in anger or expressing hyperbole.

The other point that StevenL makes, that is quite valid, is that if this postcard is going to be perceived as an effort to discredit progressives, then progressives (as a community) ought to be pro-active in seeking justice.

I have already stated my opinion, but I will do so again for clarity's sake. My own two cents is that the best would be to simply acknowledge the nastiness, meanness and wrongness: and condemn it, then grow closer as a whole community, and move on, better as a result, from there.

I think the best preventative for future occurrences of such hurtful actions and behaviors as the postcard would be to genuinely use this as an opportunity to learn and to grow, to be a more respectful, tolerant, and inclusive community. There is an opportunity to join with each other in rejection of basic meanness.

But if people need justice, in terms of consequences for the perpetrator, on this specific issue, then it is also important to acknowledge and consider that.











Okay

Maybe it's unfair. Maybe I should have kept my postulating to myself.

The basis is that the post-card might be construed as an attempt to discredit people who oppose Kingsbury's apparent support for the Triway rezone proposal.

Maybe I was hasty in expressing this idea.

Maybe the best thing is just to let it go (the postcard) and use it as an opportunity to grow closer as a community that opposes these kind of mean-spirited, hateful and destructive attacks.











Definitely not funny ...

... but maybe not necessarily overt homophobia.

I was sent a copy of the postcard, but only after agreeing not to share. I'm not sure if that promise prohibits me from directly quoting, but I will err on the side of caution and refrain from doing so -- even though it will probably become public at some point.  But I think it's OK to say this much:

The entire text of the postcard is attributed to JK -- as if he wrote it. The most vile portion of the postcard text, which the Olympian and others suggest is homophobic, includes statements implying that he is soliciting sex with underage boys through his theater work.

I am aware that the majority of people in our society wrongly believe that homosexual men are more inclined toward pedophilia than heterosexual men. This perception is an inaccurate stereotype about gay men. If that stereotype was consciously exploited through this stunt, that would constitute a clearly homophobic intent.

Yet, it is possible for a heterosexual man to be targeted in the same way with references to underage girls. In which case, obviously, homophobia (or any other particular identity-based "ism,") would not be a factor.

I think the sexual implications in the postcard are a completely deplorable tactic, whatever the "objective" of the tactic may have been and whatever the orientation of the person targeted.  But the question of overtly homophobic intent does not seem to me to be as cut and dry as the Olympian implies.

Either way, it was definitely not funny.

Seconded

Although I wouldn't compare the Kingsbury postcard to the actions of the Unabomber...

StevenL makes a pretty solid argument for getting this matter out into the open.






Maybe it's unfair!?! How about nuts?

Thanks for the insight into conspiracy think. How one gets from an amateurish lashing out to Triway or psyops from Ft. Lewis trods a path of evidence free assumption.

Here let me translate into Clue think

It was Janette Hawkins in Triway HQ with a bulk mail program.

It was an unknown Lieutenant in a bunker in Korea with DARPA technology. 

It was the Israelis in Newark with demolition charges. Oops, wrong conspiracy...

Sleazy? Yes. Homophobic? I don't see it.

I saw the postcard, and while I think it was sleazy and mean, I didn't really think it was homophobic. The allegations of sexual misconduct between a middle-aged person and underage youths would have been just as distasteful if they were directed at a middle-aged woman, or a man who was allegedly pursuing teenaged girls.

Nevertheless, the postcard created an atmosphere where to criticize Kingsbury's policy decisions is to risk public disapproval and perhaps a police investigation. The postcard pretty much killed the Facebook discussion, didn't it? If the postcard creator(s) was someone who doesn't like his pro-development, anti-noise, anti-homeless policies, it really backfired, because now people are afraid to speak up and criticize Kingsbury for legitimate reasons.

Laurian

Do you really think it's "nuts"?






jlw, your dislike for Jeff is showing

You made some assertions I don't think you would have raised against someone you approve of. To whit:

The card was sleazy and homophobic.

All allegations of inter-generational sex are not equivalent. While you may find heterosexual pederasty just as distasteful, surely you know man/boy sex sets people off like nothing else.

The Facebook flap was played out. (and Jim Reeves is still a racist asshole.)

Nobody is going to be investigated on for disagreeing with Jeff.

What anti-homeless policies? Is Jeff not a strong supporter of Camp Quixote? Does he not have a record of defending social service spending? Jeff is good on these kind of issues.

Keep opposing Jeff on the issues you don't agree with but don't suggest the postcard flap is an excuse/explination for being on the losing side of city politics. 

 

On a side note. Slanderous postcards was a favorite election tactic Sen. Joe McCarthy 

 

Too much information is missing,

so any speculation on who did this is completely nuts right now. We don't know:

1) How many postcards were sent out, and who they were sent to, which would help us figure out if a mailing list was used,
2) What the originating zipcode or timestamps are, which may not help at all, or may make all the difference,
3) Exactly what the card says, which is the most important part!


What I find most frustrating is that the police say that 'no crime was committed' which I find to be untrue. Maybe someone knows the law better than me, but to my understanding, you can't use snail mail to impersonate someone else-- something about fraud and what not.

But I am Just Another Voice

But I am Just Another Voice

Speaking of personal attacks...

Quite a few people raised similar points... why do you feel the need to respond to me, Laurian? Quite frankly, I am confused by what you have written. I can't tell whether you are arguing with me or incorrectly reiterating what I said. And I certainly don't blame the postcard flap for being on the losing side of city politics. It was lost long before the postcard -- probably around the time campaign contributions were made.

Ok I'll bite

  • I responded to your post because it moved me to write. And it was the last in the thread.
  • Personal attack? I think not. The allegation of Personal Attack gets thrown around way too much. I took issue with your words, not you as a person.
  • I was taking issue with your assertions but I was writing to the larger audience as well.
  • Until someone out there can prove a quid pro quo all this innuendo about campaign donations dictating council policy is bunk and more than a tad bit conspiratorial. I agree there are better ways to pay for campaigns but there are somethings to be said for the current system as well. 
Curiously you questioned my motives and impuned my intent all without addressing the points I raised. Just sayin'

Seriously, you're waiting for "proof"?

What are you expecting, a signed contract, where a councilmember agrees to vote for a rezone if Tri Vo donates a few thousand dollars to his public benefit corporation? Do you think these folks are idiots? But look at the trend: two councilmembers are voting against the rezone; both received no donations from Triway. Five are voting for it, three of whom received donations from Triway (one of whom didn't run a campaign and therefore received no donations). 100% of the people on the council who received donations from Triway are voting for the rezone. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you will, but I find that to be a disturbing trend.

You have put the cart before the horse

Pretend I'm a civic developer who has certain views including say I oppose impact fees. I look around for candidates who share my views and make contributions to their campaign.The way you have described it candidates go to contributors and ask them to develop their positions.

Yes, I am looking for an actionable conflict of interest because lacking that a person is just blowing smoke. You paint a very simplistic portrait. I encourage you to do fundraising on a campaign so you have 1st hand knowledge of which you speak.

"If you can't take their money, drink their liquor and screw their women then vote against them the next day you have no business being here."

Horse before the cart

In Kingsbury's case, actually, the contribution from Triway came after the election, after the application for the plan amendment, but before the vote.

Your suggestion that only people who have done fundraising are entitled to be concerned about influence peddling is ridiculous.

the contribution from Triway came after the election

Show me the C3.

It was made to the Playhouse

Look in the Playbill.

Oh, now supporting theater is a politcal act

What was the contribution and what percentage of the Playhouse's total budget did Tri Vo's contribution represent?

My problem with your smear campaign is you have yet to print any numbers along with your assertion of untoward influence. Jeff received 0 dollars from Tri Vo or Triways in his 2005 campaign and as far as I can tell his campaign committee has yet to  received a freakin' dollar from said person.

Having no experience in fundraising in either the Arts or political realm, and no apparent research into the subject,  once again I question your understanding of how the world turns. In theater and politics you take money from whomever offers it then vote and produce your conscious.

 

Let's let people draw their own inferences, shall we?

Triway Enterprises, which had not contributed to the Capital Playhouse previously (at least within the last several years) was listed in a July 2008 program as having donated at the "fanatic" level -- between $1,000 and $4,999. There's nothing wrong with supporting the arts, of course, but the timing may raise a question for some people. I certainly hope that our elected representatives vote according to their consciences. But there is a striking correspondence between receiving contributions from Triway and supporting the rezone Triway wants: All of the councilmembers who have received contributions from Triway (Mah, Strub, Kingsbury) are leaning toward a rezone.

I think it's a bit over the top to call this "a smear campaign," Laurian. People can draw their own inferences. Perhaps you, and the other wise souls who understand how the world really works, are untroubled by the apparent correspondence between contributions and votes, but the rest of us idiots are still free to think for ourselves.

Could you please elaborate?

How is Jeff Kingsbury being targeted because of his sexual orientation?

Who says it's OK and what exactly is it?

Rob, can you clarify for those of us in the dark ... exactly what are you referring to here? You refer to a "heinous act" "target[ing]" Jeff's sexuality. Could you flesh this out a bit?

I assume this is it

That's not all of it

The Olympian didn't print the second half, which is the really mean-spirited and sleazy section. I don't want to republish it, but its pitch is that he's sexually involved with the boys in his plays, and its emotional charge is carried by a series of nasty sexual double-entendres.

I not only agree with pretty much all the moral condemnation in this thread so far, I think it's a stupid and unproductive tactic politically - if it's got any "political" intentions at all. In Olympia, I think it will make a lot more voters feel like supporting him than it will turn against him.

We got two of these cards - one addressed to my wife and one to the Community of Interfaith Celebration, where she used to be the minister. I think that if you were able to collect a lot of these, and did some research looking at the small variations in exactly how the names and addresses were used and going around asking if you could look at mailing lists that you might be able to figure out what list was used. (My wife gets mail with four or five versions of her name, long and short first name, with initial and without, etc.; this came with her last name first. It was also a pretty old list, because she hasn't been working as a minister for a number of years, so we don't get very much mail addressed to CIC at our house any more.) But I don't know if that would take you much closer to figuring out who actually used the list.

It's creepy having the sort of stuff you read about unknown Republican operatives doing in South Carolina appearing in Olympia.

Thad


Best wishes,
Thad

 

Why has he been the

Why has he been the principal target for things other city council members support as well?

Is it just a circle of asshats that keep doing this stuff to him?

I really hope they find the persons who did this. Do we know how many of the postcards were sent?

But I am Just Another Voice

But I am Just Another Voice

Like Jeff or hate Jeff

the card campaign is bullshit. It spreads lies about his political ambitions and plays a homophobic card for motivations yet to understood. I for one stand right beside Jeff and condemn this cowardly act. I hope the rest of the readers do so as well.

OMG, I agree with Laurian!

And it is not the first time!

I found this comment on the olympian comments to be especially true:
"It could not have been the Anarchists, since they would not pay for postage.

It would not have been the TESC students, since they would not slander someone's sexuality.

It would not have been Moses, since he's barely able to organize a speech much less a mass mailing. (His spelling is unique as well.)

Who hates homosexuals, the Oly City Council, Nihilists and Anarchists, and the Churches? Who would name specific community organizers in the comments section of this paper and suggest they be "investigated?"

COINTELPRO folks. Smell the strategy of tension:

Divide and conquer, cast aspersions on the integrity of all, get brother fighting sister over the share set aside for baby. Throw mom into the workforce and Dad into the unemployment line. Destroy community and establish hegemony.

All eyes should look to the largest game preserve in Pierce and Thurston Counties if they want an answer to this. This is Classic Psyops. They have the means, the motive, the budget, the time, and the tradecraft. Look up "Black Propaganda" and read the descriptions you'll see. Now peek at the Psyops Manual and tell me it's not a classic example. Logic Bombe | 11.21.08 - 1:02 pm | #"

I wish I could thank the person who posted that, but alas - they were Anonymous. Oh, well. Guess they were afraid of big bad Ft Lewis. But I can say the name - Ft Lewis! Ft Lewis! Ft Lewis! (does that send them back to hell like it does in the movies? No? Darn.)

Keep in mind that Laurian would not endorse a conspiracy theory however - just that he and I agree, that despite whatever disagreements we have with Jeff, Jeff K is a neighbor and a human being who needs our support in this hour of transparent libel and slander against him. But more importantly this is an attack on our community! And I for one call bulls*%t on it.

um

Jeff doesn't think it was the right wingers from the olympian Kingsbury noted that this is not the first time he has been targeted by anonymous people. In July, paint-filled light bulbs were hurled at Capital Playhouse. A group calling itself the Nihilist Assault Group later claimed credit, taking issue with Kingsbury's perceived support of downtown condos and his initial opposition to Camp Quixote, a tent city for the homeless. Kingsbury said his locks also have been glued shut. He said he thinks the same people are targeting him this time, trying to act conservative as a ruse. "They want to make it look like it's coming from the right," he said. "That's what I think. I think it's a cover."

Agreed

Like Jeff or hate Jeff Submitted by Laurian on Fri, 11/21/2008 - 11:50am. the card campaign is bullshit. It spreads lies about his political ambitions and plays a homophobic card for motivations yet to understood. I for one stand right beside Jeff and condemn this cowardly act. I hope the rest of the readers do so as well.

Count me in, I also stand right beside Jeff and condemn this cowardly act.

 

Thanks for articulating that, Rob.

There is no room for these kinds of tactics in public discourse.


Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt

Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt

Well said Rob

nt

Attack on Jeff

This mailing is not only an attack on Jeff, it is an attack on the whole community. If the intent was to divide and conquer, then I think it will backfire, and it will only cause the community to come closer in rejection of, and opposition to, this type of mean-spirited and cowardly anonymous personal attack.

Additionally: it's hard to imagine that something like this would not have been motivated, on at least some level, by hate.











Interesting...

You can replace the name "Jeff" in your first sentence and insert "Moses" and your post could also be about the Facebook comments referring the "idiots" in our community (except Jeff's attack wasn't anonymous, he stupidly did it under his real name). Not that I condone the postcards, and I certainly don't intend to belabor the Facebook scandal, I just think that somehow it's been forgotten that just days ago, this man attacked a member of our community with his own mean-spirited comments.

Thanks for pointing that out.

It's not people were talking about really. It's ideas, and behavior.

I would like to live in a society that is tolerant - a society without hate and meanness. (This would, perhaps, be one of only a few exceptions to overall tolerance. Other exceptions might include doing harm to wilderness ecological systems.)

Thanks Marcie. That fact is not lost on me. I have a lot of differences with Council Member Kingsbury's conduct as a public official.











And as if

the brain trust running our local corporate newspaper were not deficient enough, we have this unfortunate juxtoposition of editorial space and advertising on the web page jump. More important might be the criminal hate speach fostered in The Olympian's comment feature following the story. Is the paper then an accessory to the crime?

When I feed the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist. - Dom Helder Camara, Archbishop of Recife, Brazil

When I feed the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist. - Dom Helder Camara, Archbishop of Recife, Brazil (b. 1909, d. 1999)

There are ads on the

There are ads on the Olympian? I learn something new every day. I want to say this: though I posted Jeff's poor-taste Facebook posting, and I disagree with many of his choices on Council, along with how he behaves toward people he disagrees with, the man does not deserve the attacks in this mailing. They are cowardly and disgusting.