Kucinich Wrongly Excluded from Debate

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Really?

Submitted by Ehver Green on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 2:20pm.

When will he accept that the citizens of the United States, collectively, don't want him to be our President? He couldn't even beat undecided voters in Iowa. Maybe he'll do better in independent rich New Hampshire on Tuesday, but he should follow Dodd and Biden's lead. I think he's polling around 2% in NH. It's time for him to return to service for the people of Ohio.

Collective Desire

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 4:35pm.

How can the citizens know, collectively, that they don't want him to be our president if they are not allowed to hear him debate?

There may be a pocket or two

Submitted by Ehver Green on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 6:09pm.

There may be a pocket or two of one-off support, but c'mon, I mean really, we've seen him debate. Even Gravel got to a debate or two. Then he threw a rock in some water and stared at the camera. Cool if you're a rock start (for some), gimmicky if you want to be president.

We've heard his (Kucinich) positions. Nobody really cares, unless I'm seeing, reading, and hearing things incorrectly. We know what can happen when pride trumps practical. Nader came to his senses. Let's hope Kucinich can do the same.

Came to his senses

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 6:18pm.

Have we heard Kucinich's positions? Are you sure everyone has? If everyone knew exactly what Kucinich stands for, instead of knowing only what mainstream corporate media wants them to know, I firmly believe and I have good reason to do so, then he would have a much greater amount of support. Kucinich is the honest candidate. He is the worker's candidate. He is the peoples' candidate.

There is a valid argument to be made that Congressman Kucinich is the only true Democrat running.

We? I don't know. I have

Submitted by Ehver Green on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 8:32pm.

We? I don't know. I have and I can't get behind him. We disagree on too many of the issues. Guns, immigration, taxes to name a few. I do like his half-hatched health care plan and think he has a better understanding than the current administration.

The onus of proving ones value and presidential "electability" lies with the candidate, the campaign, and the voter. The media is not to blame. There are far too many information outlets to hide behind the media excuse. Huckabee was getting little national coverage several weeks ago. It was all about Romney, Guiliani, and McCain. Now look where he stands.

...and I have good reason to do so,...

Get out the reason! Educate us.

Is it a money thing?

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 3:20pm.

It is ABC's show right? Is he truly a "credible" candidate even? I'm not sure what harm it would be to give him so face time there, but I don't run things so....

Kucinich Resonates with The People

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 4:41pm.

In the last major debate that Kucinich participated in, he 'won'. In online polling afterward, he ranked well above the other candidates. There is more difference between Kucinich and the rest of the candidates, so he stands out. He is a strong voice against corporatism. The ABC network, a wholly owned subsidiary of Disney (notorious for its corporatism), has unfairly and wrongly excluded Kucinich, a credible and legitimate candidate, from participating in a Presidential Election race. The race for President is a public matter, and ABC relies on the use of the Public Airwaves for its broadcast. Therefore, the decision to exclude Rep. Kucinich is a betrayal of the right of the American People to have a full choice in their selection of the next President.

Then he should file suit and

Submitted by Ehver Green on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 6:10pm.

Then he should file suit and sue corporate America.

Ok, so he won

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 6:25pm.

but had his butt handed to him in Iowa....why? If he resonates so well with the people what happend in Iowa?

What happened in Iowa

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 9:30pm.

He didn't spend money in IA. It was a strategic decision - I don't understand it entirely myself, but I understand that he had good reasons. The Kucinich campaign has only a fraction of the money to spend compared to the other front runners.

And this is where you and I

Submitted by Ehver Green on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 9:51pm.

And this is where you and I could agree that the money spent by both parties is astounding. But, instead of being astounded, the free cash is worn like a battle ribbon. I don't believe all sides should have equal money to begin. I believe there should be a limit on the amount that can be raised.

$260 million spent so far. Over $400 million raised. http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.asp

I'm on the same page as EG

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 11:20pm.

I really think "career" politicians should be abolished. Maybe keeping it to a maximum of 8 or 12 years total in public office before you have to go back to your normal life.

I really think Kucinich is a fringe politician though Rob, and I don't mean that to offend you. He's pretty far out there for me, I imagine when trying to target the largest portion of citizens possible, he's probably not a good bet.

Fringe Politician

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 11:25pm.

I wonder what makes you think that Congressman Kucinich, who has repeatedly been re-elected to public office in the House of Representatives via popular vote, is a "fringe politician?"

Maybe it is because the mainstream corporate media keeps repeating it over and over without giving him adequate and fair time to present his real views.

He's a storied politician.

Submitted by Ehver Green on Mon, 01/07/2008 - 12:03am.

He's a storied politician. Cleveland city council at 23. Mayor at 31 - many believe his two years as mayor to be the worst in Cleveland history. Re-elected to the House 5 times and likely a 6th unless he becomes president.

His district in Ohio turned out 190,00 voters in 2006 with the congressman earning nearly 66% of the vote. Poor showing (single digit) in the 2004 Ohio presidential primary tells me his support doesn't extend beyond his nose.

Of the 'statements' he has made while in congress this one disturbs me the most. But maybe more disturbing is the number of NV's - 98.

The more I learn about DK the more he reminds me of TJ for better or worse. It really depends on what side of the conversation you live on.

Actually

Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 01/07/2008 - 12:12am.

His time as mayor of Cleveland was initially thought of as bad but opinion changed over time.

from wikipedia:

"In the book Best and Worst of the Big-City Leaders, 1820–1993, Melvin G. Holli, in consultation with a panel of experts, placed Kucinich among the ten worst big-city mayors of all time for reasons of temperament and performance, while Kucinich's supporters say that Kucinich kept his campaign promise of refusing to sell Muni Light to CEI and was brave for not giving in to big business. Specifically, it was the Cleveland Trust Company that required all of the city's debts be paid in full, which forced the city into default, after news of Kucinich's refusal to sell the city utility. For years these debts were routinely rolled over, pending future payment, until Kucinich's announcement was made public. In 1998 the council honored him for having the "courage and foresight" to stand up to the banks and saving the city an estimated $195 million between 1985 and 1995."

I agree, this mayoral

Submitted by Ehver Green on Mon, 01/07/2008 - 12:25am.

I agree, this mayoral debacle turned in his favor. Still not going to change my mind. I need to understand why Rob W. is so passionate about Mr. Kucinich and what he knows that suggests some of us are in the dark on the Democratic congressman from Ohio.

"turned in his favor"

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Mon, 01/07/2008 - 12:40am.

It didn't turn in his favor. He made the best decision and at the time people didn't realize it - partly because the media slimed him.

Rep. Kucinich is a public servant, first and foremost. He holds genuine altruistic beliefs about public service. He acts in the interests of the public. He acts to benefit The People.

Therefore, he has people who don't want him in power. namely the monied corporate interests - for example, those who owned the energy company that he refused to sell the public utility to.

So those in private industry gang up on him.

Perception, that is. I

Submitted by Ehver Green on Mon, 01/07/2008 - 12:44am.

Perception, that is. I agree, he was correct from the beginning and deserved the recognition.

It's a matter of perspective

Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 01/07/2008 - 12:40am.

I like Kucinich. I also realize that he's a left wing candidate in a moderate world. Politics being about elect-ability, people tend to only pay attention to those who are electable.

Rob W. doesn't care so much about elect-ability and wants to shine light on Kucinich because he believes in Kucinich. From Rob W's political perspective Kucinich is not a fringe candidate at all, but a candidate that resonates with him deeply.

From your political perspective, Kucinich is so far from you that he does seem like a fringe candidate.

Neither of you are right or wrong, and I think we all agree that regardless of political affiliation or philosophy, candidates should get equal time and that money should be taken more out of the equation. Personally, I support public financing and Instant Runoff Voting.

This makes sense to me. I

Submitted by Ehver Green on Mon, 01/07/2008 - 12:47am.

This makes sense to me. I think there's a place for his voice. The good that he does is noteworthy and valuable.

What makes me think that?

Submitted by Norm on Mon, 01/07/2008 - 5:33pm.

The polls, and listening to his stances. He may be a great congressman, but that is not a president. His views may catch his local voters, but he is not catching the rest of the country. His issues, which will become far more important if elected to president, are something I would say is "fringe". I think even if everyone paid attention to him, learned his views, and understood what he wanted....he would still be fringe, and not commanding much attention. I know I wouldn't vote for him.

Candid Candidates

Submitted by Ehver Green on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 4:00pm.

I am interested in learning what Obama, Edwards, and Clinton think of Kucinich's push to finish last. OK, 2nd to last, Gravel is still on the books as a candidate.

Framing

Submitted by chaney on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 6:33pm.

Has Kucinich ever really been treated, in the manner the mainstream media speaks and writes about him, as if he were a real candidate, as real as the candidates with more money? It seems to me that the first thing people are told about him is, "he's not electable." People are not going to choose a candidate who's presented to them in that way, and that includes people in Iowa. How many people voted Obama or Edwards due to perceived electability, but really preferred Kucinich on an issue-by-issue basis?

That depends on whether or

Submitted by Ehver Green on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 8:09pm.

That depends on whether or not the UFO was real.

New Hampshire, Iowa, and Edwards

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 9:39pm.

Here's a statement from the Kucinich campaign [via email:]

New Hampshire, Iowa and Edwards

Dear Supporter,

For the record:
New Hampshire is the first state where we are aggressively campaigning. Due to the Party lockout in Iowa, we chose to focus on New Hampshire.
I am the only person running for President who voted against the war, against funding the war 100% of the time, against the Patriot Act, and who stands for a universal single-payer not-for-profit healthcare system. Nevertheless I was excluded from Saturday night's ABC Presidential debate, or four tone monologue as it was.
3. In answer to your questions about why I didn't support former Senator John Edwards on the second ballot in Iowa: I have serious concerns about his connections to a Wall Street hedge fund, Fortress Investment Group. While attacking others for accepting campaign money from Washington lobbyists, he is up to his ears in money from Wall Street special interests.
He made half a million dollars in a single year for attending a few meetings for Fortress and has invested a substantial part of his own personal wealth in the hedge fund whose portfolios are responsible for sub-prime predatory lending practices, Medicare privatization, and an entire range of corporate sharp dealings that are driving the middle class into poverty.

While I indicated Senator Obama as a preferred second choice in Iowa, Progressives have fundamental disagreements with him and all of the other Presidential candidates on most of their major positions on the issues.

We must have the courage of our convictions to fully support and vote for what it is we really want. For once, we must realize our power, stop playing tactical games, and vote as a bloc - which, as you know, is what the religious right does and why they often win.

We Progressives are in the majority in this election. We will win only when we refuse to compromise and vote with integrity.

Dennis Kucinich

www.Dennis4President.com

Video Regarding Dennis's Exclusion

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 01/06/2008 - 10:57pm.

I'm with you and

Submitted by Chia on Tue, 01/08/2008 - 6:37am.

I'm with you and pro-Kucinich. I want a peace president who also lives a lifestyle of wholistic nonviolence (Kucinich is vegetarian). I also think that everyone deserves health care and that this should be a public system based on community need rather than profit. I think that a public health system would become much more preventative in approach than privatized systems where it seems profit is made from treating disease rather than helping people stay healthy.

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Nonviolence Includes Animals:
audio
"PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk's address to the International Nonviolence Conference in Bethlehem"

Kucinich is actually vegan.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 01/08/2008 - 12:20pm.

You're just too well-informed for words :)

Submitted by Chia on Tue, 01/08/2008 - 2:24pm.

---------
Nonviolence Includes Animals:
audio
"PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk's address to the International Nonviolence Conference in Bethlehem"

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