May Day Editorial Comment

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May Day Editorial Comment

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 7:52pm.

May Day 2008 in Olympia Washington went down with a bang when a (fractional) faction of the protest turned violent. Members of the "Black Bloc" threw rocks at several windows on at least two different bank buildings. Bank employees and customers were inside the buildings when this happened.

I was there - the whole afternoon. Up until the broken windows, the protests were peaceful and nonviolent. Although some of the speeches made me uncomfortable, and some of the speakers made statements that I certainly wasn't in complete agreement with, I felt enough solidarity to stick with the protest even after the Capitol Building was defaced with graffiti.

In fact, I wasn't really uncomfortable with the demeanor of the protest (besides the graffiti on the Capitol Building) until about 10 minutes prior to the first rock throwing incident. I noticed feelings of discomfort in regard to the tone of the protest when a certain vocal group (identity unknown to me) decided to lead the march down a one-way street directionally opposed to the flow of traffic. This move seemed somewhat unsafe, and it also seemed antagonistic toward drivers on 4th Ave, who had varying degrees of understanding about, and appreciation for, the protesters who were marching. I would have felt more comfortable and would have preferred, for example, to take State Ave. West, instead of marching in opposition to the one-way flow of traffic, and then to do a loop back toward the East on 4th Ave. My discomfort makes me curious; I wonder if anyone else was made uncomfortable by this decision to march against the flow of traffic. I was also additionally uncomfortable with the antagonistic and hostile chanting (yelling) of the slogan "Tear it down". Does that slogan possibly scare people and does it turn people off to the movement?

Well, I stuck with it despite my concerns, and I tried to smile and show a positive face for the peace and justice movement. I was parallel with the Spar Café when it happened. I heard a series of loud banging noises. It sounded like cracking or snapping, like banging or slapping a wood stick or board against pavement. However, I didn't know that windows had been broken until quite some time later, some 5 or 10 minutes later, after I had broken away from the march and regrouped in Sylvester Park with others who had done the same.

I broke away from the march because the tone became too uncomfortable for me. I feel that the tone of the protest changed from one of celebration and hope, and the voicing of frustrations and grievances - to a tone of anger, hostility and what might even be deemed as hate.

I am not going to defend the unethical lending (and other) practices that some banks participate in. But the throwing of rocks?

To those who threw rocks I want to ask why. Why did you throw rocks? Was it out of anger? You stole the show by the way - and congratulations. The story now is all about you, instead of about the important work of the peace and justice movement, including the labor and immigrant rights, and anti-war, sanctuary city movements.

I am in full agreement that these banks participate in some of the most indefensible lending practices: practices which enable oppression, repression, exploitation, environmental degradation and destruction, violence in our communities as well as foreign aggression committed by our government. Yes the policies, politics and practices of the banks are a very legitimate target for activism. But throwing rocks?

What did you accomplish by throwing rocks?

I could understand throwing rocks - perhaps I just could understand it - if for example you had a family member who had been murdered as a result of a banks' lending to a hostile and repressive military regime - in that case I could understand your anger. I wouldn't support rock throwing. But at least then I could understand it.

What drove you to throw the rocks and what did you hope to accomplish?

You preach about solidarity. Then you go and do something like this. I don't know what to say, except that I feel betrayed. And I want an explanation.

(I took some photos and video from the protest, see here.)

Robert Whitlock's blog

Well said

Submitted by security_six on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 7:58pm.

Thanks for the input.

Life's a reach, then you jibe.

Whenever you have truth it

Submitted by PeaceCompass on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 9:18pm.

Whenever you have truth it must be given with love, or the message and the messenger will be rejected. -gandhi

Just curious...

Submitted by The Original Yoda on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 8:04pm.

...can anyone describe the "black bloc"?

Who are they? What do they stand for? I'm a bit outside of that scene.

"Black Bloc"

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 8:15pm.

"Black Bloc" people tend to dress all in black, wearing hoods / bandannas and/or face masks (in a presumed desire for anonymity), here's a picture with some "Black Bloc" types in it. I don't think I got any good frontal shots. They don't like to have their pictures taken, so I don't press the issue much:

another one

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 8:17pm.

black bloc

Submitted by olybrett on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 10:17am.

The black bloc has always been bigger in Europe than here in North America, though its actions there seem to be waning in this millennium. The idea is that strength in numbers and anonymity allow for folks to take specific actions often within the context of a larger march or protest. Of course the anonymity makes it fairly easy for this group to be infiltrated by anyone wanting to take any actions, even actions that directly contradict the message and point of the larger rally.

rocks

Submitted by earball on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 8:09pm.

Violence -- even the violence done to bank windows -- is, like war, a failure of imagination. It's an attempted short-term solution to a long-term problem. I'm not sure what problem the rock-throwers were trying to solve, but the result was unfortunate and clear: more polarization in the community, a backlash against the message of the people who protested peacefully, and more arguments for the people who consider downtown Olympia to be threatening and unsafe.

I wonder how many were local?

Submitted by security_six on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 8:18pm.

If any? I saw the names in the paper, although one person didn't identify themselves, and another clearly used a fake name.

Life's a reach, then you jibe.

Or, if local, for how long past their graduation date?

Submitted by Bauermeister on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 12:25pm.

I don't mean to choose a scapegoat, but as a long-term resident of Olympia it appears that the main people who do this sort of thing are spoiled little boys (and I DO mean to be gender specific) playing at revolution.

I'm sorry if I sound snarky, but there are those of us who actually live here and are working hard to engage in a discussion with the larger community and make them realize that, in the end, we are all hoping to make Olympia a better place to live. Then some idiot decides he's going to prove how cool he really is and loses us whatever good will we may have.

The city council is considering the noise ordinance on Tuesday, and I wouldn't be surprised if they used this as an excuse to disregard our concerns.

Thanks boys, you really did us a great service!

S6 - 3 of Them

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 12:50pm.

were from California. There were May Day protests going on there, why did they come here? Because Olympia is known for it's violent protests? Because the Olympia prosecutors are known for releasing violent protesters instead of putting them in jail and charging them and seeing the processes through to the end with consequences for their destructive actions?

Thanks for the account

Submitted by Laurian on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 8:40pm.

I'm sure as this plays out your eyewitness account will be valuable in speaking truth to power.

Thank you Rob

Submitted by Sarah on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 9:17pm.

What drove you to throw the rocks and what did you hope to accomplish?
You preach about solidarity. Then you go and do something like this. I don't know what to say, except that I feel betrayed. And I want an explanation.

Me too.

I think Olympia is seriously infiltrated

Submitted by libby on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 9:56pm.

To me it has been apparent for quite some time that the Olympia activist community is heavily infiltrated by people paid by the Feds -- Cointelpro style.

Consider that as you try to understand actions that otherwise make no sense. The evidence is circumstantial, but what are the odds that a town with this much going on to challenge the power structure, this close to a military base where special-ops are trained, is NOT infiltrated?

I'm not saying that every action I don't support or understand is the work of the Feds. And please don't ask who I suspect or what tangible evidence I have. I have none.

I simply find that there are enough seriously destructive behaviors going on within the activist community, that there is likely a level of government involvement and influence here well beyond what most people might imagine. And I'm not just talking about rock throwers.

That's all from me.

Umm...

Submitted by security_six on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 10:01pm.

Wow. Just wow. Trying very hard not to make snarky comments...

Life's a reach, then you jibe.

It does happen you know.

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 12:07pm.

Here's a great example. (1) Peaceful protesters defending the peace and integrity of their demonstration. (2) Cop provocateurs caught posing as black block.

Gus, you are freaking amazing!

Submitted by chad360 on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 12:31pm.

WOW, just WOW!

You are amazing man (I'm impressed with you finding this).

The citizens of Oly should INSIST on peaceful protest, in exactly the same way as depicted in this vid-

Great post, just freaking great!

There wasn't a thing in that

Submitted by wilson on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 12:33pm.

There wasn't a thing in that video that proved anything except the same thing it proves here. Punk kids acting like fools.

We see what we want to see sometimes

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 12:58pm.

If the video doesn't convince you...

This better?

thank you

Submitted by epersonae on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 1:32pm.

It's quite inspirational to see those guys keeping their protest peaceful and really actively excluding those who want to escalate to violence. Thank you.

Also, an agent provocateur, historically, isn't necessarily a government agent. (Note the colloquialism 1/2 way down: "Let's you and him fight.") Although that certainly has been the case, including here in the US, where quite often the goal was either to discredit the group or to cause them to do something easier to prosecute. I fear that the first has certainly happened here.

I am sure the 1st Special

Submitted by wilson on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 9:15am.

I am sure the 1st Special Forces Group on post is really concerned about a bunch of kids in there early twenties in Olympia. They don't have much else to do. I can hear it now....."Gentlemen, today's mission is to infiltrate a group of insurgents in the Olympia area, we can find them at local coffee shops scribbling in worn composition books and waxing on about the fall of the capitalist empire...in the name of all that is holy they must be stopped. There shoddy student newspapers and tired old bumper stickers are becoming a danger to the republic. I know that some of you think this mission is illegal, it is, but we have to do it. If you are captured beware of catchy rhyming slogans that may be screamed at you over and over, there is nothing in your training that has prepared you for this, only natives to the area seem immune to it. You will be issued vintage clothes and a local flat you can operate out of. God Speed!!! Mount up!!!"

Wilson, are you deliberately

Submitted by libby on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 1:59pm.

Wilson, are you deliberately trying to misrepresent reality, or are you actually that unaware of what goes on in this community?

Yes, if the sum total of activism in this town consisted only of "a bunch of kids in their early twenties," there might be less for the defenders-of-the-status-quo to concern themselves with. But, of course, that is not the case. Here in Olympia, there is an amazing amount of peace and justice work done by a vast array of student and community groups, often working in coaltion. Not only are the students themselves a diverse population, but community activists come from all walks of life and age groups.

For instance, because of their broad appeal and effectiveness (across borders, ages, and cultures), I would say that Craig and Cindy Corrie are far more threatening to the status quo than the black bloc could ever dream of being. The government absolutely has an incentive to come here to disrupt and discredit the good work being done -- Olympia is very influential, nationally and internationally.

I hate to even begin listing the many successful projects, as there is no way to list them all. Nor do I want to go off on a tangent defining "success." But a few obvious ones would include:

involvement in organizing 50,000+ people to come to Seattle in 1999 to shut down the WTO
involvement in organinzing the shut-down of I-5 in the 80's in response to US sponsorship of terrorism in Central America, including the illegal mining of Niquaragua's harbor
Santo Tomas Sister City project
Palestinian solidarity work, including the Rafah sister city project (despite the council's refusal to endorse)
Camp Quixote and all the other great work on behalf of low income and homeless people
And despite the dismissiveness found here on Olyblog, PMR has been very influential. Groups from all over the country have contacted PMR asking members to come to towns to speak so that their strategies and tactics might be emulated.

For a town its size, there is much going on here that the powers-that-be do not want to see emulated.

Local Movement for Peace and Justice is Credible and Potent

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 7:51pm.

I agree with you libby that the local Peace and Justice Movement is potent. There is a reservoir of support for peace and justice in Olympia that goes very deep. I believe that there is potential to have many thousands of people involved in the local direct action movement to stop the war, and to do our part locally to stop the foreign policy of global dominance and aggression as it is being committed by OUR government.

There is a powerful voice of truth and justice here.

There is a spirit that runs deep within the movement. A peaceful and dignified spirit that I believe, once it is tapped into, has the potential to energize a transformational/revolutionary and truly effective peace movement. It truly has the capacity to completely transform society... Imagine the possibility of a transformation away from the present-day violent society of industrial growth, waste, and exploitation - toward a society that is based on respect for life and sustaining life. Respect for life, all life.

That is why the Peace and Justice Movement in Olympia is credible and potent and why it threatens the establishment to the point where it is reasonable to imagine infiltration.

The blackbloc undermines that credibility and that potential. Seemingly purposeless and senseless - random - acts of violence and property destruction, creating a disharmonious and UNCOMFORTABLE protest environment... these things are getting in the way of building a broad based critical mass, inclusive and participatory nonviolent creative direct action peace movement.

To put it simply: they take the fun out of it. They take the peace out of it. They make it tense, hostile, uncomfortable. They make it unsafe - unsafe for everyone, but especially for elderly, children, and less-able people.

Their actions also enable and (pseudo)justify the law enforcement to take more extreme actions, to use strong-arm tactics.

They verbally harass law enforcement officials. These law enforcement officials have a duty to uphold the constitution and to protect against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I want make it clear that I, as a member of the peace movement am not the enemy. Fundamentally, we all just want to live in a better world. A world that does not abuse the Earth, and does not abuse people of other cultures or abuse people and things within our own culture. Look at the extinction of species our society is causing. Look at the climate disruption. There is an enemy within. It's brains are in, or near to, the White House. And we need all the allies we can get to oppose this propagation of violence and destruction as it rears its ugly head within our own government. That means treating law enforcement with respect - even when they do not reciprocate.

There is the potential in Olympia Washington, I believe, to create a model transformational society.

But that would fundamentally threaten a society that is based on exploitation and militarism and violence.

The black bloc, in my opinion doesn't represent a sustainable, or even in any way desirable alternative. It's just more violence, hate and hostility.

p.s. (Besides the point that when I confronted a person, who I believe to be a leader within the local blackbloc group, about my suspicion that he is an agent provocateur, he told me, "you're probably right, I probably am.")

sincerely,
bert

Since

Submitted by security_six on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 7:59pm.

A lot of people in Oly on both sides of issues agree that the black bloc is a problem, and causes trouble may I suggest a solution?

A joint group of volunteers at the next protest/march. Not to join in the march but to serve as "peacekeepers." Train the volunteers on how to identify potential trouble makers and have some keep an eye on the black bloc. Give them bright vests, armbands and cell phones. Task them with helping keep an eye on potential troublemakers. I think we can agree that "profiling" the black bloc is probably appropriate in this case.

Maybe give on or two peackeepers bullhorns as well to call attention to problems before they go futher. "Those two guys in masks over by XXXXX are getting rocks out of packs." Might make them think twice. Or at least make sure a whole bunch of eyes are on them.

Maybe even try and liason with OPD and see if they can provide some insight on self policing marches.

Protect yourself. Stop the predator. Reload. Dial 911.

LOL

Submitted by security_six on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 7:13pm.

That's funny. A bit of a stretch on some cliches but I got a smile!

Protect yourself. Stop the predator. Reload. Dial 911.

But I still want to know:

Submitted by libby on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 8:02pm.

Wilson, are you deliberately trying to misrepresent reality, or are you actually that unaware of what goes on in this community?

I have a very, very good

Submitted by wilson on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 12:03pm.

I have a very, very good grip on what goes on in our community. Having been born, raised, and lived most of my adult life in Oly. The things that are frustrating about our local culture are the same things that fuel my love affair with it. Just like in any relationship I am not blind to the bad or the humorous. My point may have been a little more simple than you are taking it however...First was humor, the second point was proved by the reaction. One thing that is different about this week however was the reaction of many in the activist community, this is the first time I have ever seen such energetic condemnation of the folks who decided to ruin what should have been a really fun thing. That is great to see. The normal MO would have been to blame everyone from the Pope to the President for the rocks that went flying. I still however hold to my belief that the silliness of thinking the United States Army is interested in what is going on in Olympia on a scale large enough to dedicate resources to it is such a far stretch from reality and so incredibly far from what they train to do that it still strikes me as humorous. As far as misrepresenting reality, as a lot of locals say "Olympia is 18.5 square miles sorrounded by reality" In conclusion I did not mean to offend anyone, in fact if anyone has ever been associated with units like those mentioned it would have been incredibly funny. That was my only intent.

It was an interesting how so many TV crews just happened...

Submitted by jlw on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 2:12pm.

... to be present for a rather poorly attended Immigrants' Rights March, wasn't it? Who called them? Maybe someone who was hoping for maximum attention to bad behavior associated with progressive causes? Clearly, there are people here, on this blog, and at the Olympian who are delighted to focus the community's attention on this incident, for as long as possible. My daughter remarked this morning, after seeing the Zero's headline, that when 2000 people stand for hours in the freezing rain, peacefully holding anti-war signs, the Olympian doesn't bother to cover it. But rocks through bank windows makes the front page for days.

I think

Submitted by security_six on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 7:55pm.

Anytime there is a march in a capitol city that justifies rolling out the news cameras, especially given the reputation Olympia is developing.

Protect yourself. Stop the predator. Reload. Dial 911.

I have to respectfully disagree

Submitted by jlw on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 12:09pm.

I have been at much larger peace rallies and demonstrations which received little to no media coverage. Talk to some organizers -- it is NOT easy to get media coverage for most events. On Mayday, before anything happened, my friend and I remarked on how odd it was that there was so much television coverage of such a poorly attended event. It was noticeably unusual -- three Seattle television crews at a small Mayday march? That's NOT typical.

seconded

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 12:29pm.

I second that motion. I have been to quite a few rallies and marches and I agree with you.

Anticipation of a Disruption

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 12:37pm.

Was the disruption anticipated?

Looking at the news coverage - it is by and large mainly focused on the periods of disruption and acrimony.

Is it likely that protests will only garner media attention if the media has negative protest attributes to focus on, i.e. violence, hostility, property destruction, arrests, etc.?

Perhaps if there aren't disruptions and outbursts of violence and "tantrummy" behavior, the media will be forced to focus on the actual content - on the call for Justice.

I'm with S6, Oly has gained a reputation

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 12:33pm.

Well, that's one theory.

Submitted by jlw on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 12:37pm.

Well, that's one theory. But there was a much larger peace rally on the 5th anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, in March (2008), and there was no television coverage. I guess Olympia didn't have a reputation then?

Maybe they had more important things to cover that day

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 12:49pm.

Maybe they hired extra staff between now and then. Maybe a reporter had the flu. Maybe their gas bill was too high for the month. I can come up with all kinds of scenarios that sound far more plausible than the conspiracy theory that is starting to brew here. I'll make sure and pass some tinfoil on to you the next time we meet, you can make a pretty little hat :)

Wow, kind of rude, Norm.

Submitted by jlw on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 12:55pm.

Wow, kind of rude, Norm. I noticed an unusual amount of television coverage at the Mayday even BEFORE it turned violent. Does that make me crazy?

Speculation

Submitted by Laurian on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 1:19pm.

Interesting but useless w/o facts. Why were news crews dispatched to Olympia? No guesses, quotable facts. People on the record. etc.

Not my intention to offend, although I did come off rudely.

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 1:51pm.

I just don't think any of the groups present for the March are important enough to warrant a conspiracy.

I quote Harvey Danger

Submitted by security_six on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 7:26pm.

"Paranoia, paranoia, everybody's comin' to get me, just say you never met me, I'm runnin' underground with the moles, diggin' holes. I hear the voices in my head I swear to God it sounds like their snoring...."

Seemed appropriate. And a Seattle group to boot.

Frodo has failed. Bush and Cheney have the ring.

You DID watch the video

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 1:27pm.

I posted above didn't you? Cops trying to pass themselves off as black bloc with rocks in their hands at a peaceful protest. Funny business happens. I'm definately no conspiracy theorist, but I am pretty sure there is someone out there who thinks discrediting the movement is good for America.

Thanks for the account Rob

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 10:24pm.

And seriously thank you for the sanity that your post shows. You have always come across very factual, and I appreciate that, this was a great account with some human emotion thrown in. Great job.

One more thing

Submitted by libby on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 10:27pm.

I should also clarify that I think it would be futile to waste time and energy checking people out, trying to figure out who might be working against us. Nor, as some people on this list seem to think, is it possible -- or desirable -- to impose hierarchical methods of control within the community.

The best remedy for behaviors and attitudes which run counter to the goals and ideologies of peace and justice groups, is to remain very focused and consistent and persistent in articulating, modeling, and cultivating those goals and ideals -- thus weakening the persuasive power of arguments which run counter to them -- whether they come from infiltrators or not.

thank you

Submitted by enpen on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 11:49pm.

thanks for this

Submitted by Sarah on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 8:46am.

Inspiring and helps me get back on track.

Thanks Rob.

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 11:14pm.

I am incredibly frustrated with the destructve influence of the black block folks.

Do the math

Submitted by DrewHendricks on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 11:16pm.

To figure out whether the rocks were worth it, an expression is suggested:

On the effect side: (Insurance Company bank account, minus $X Glass company bank account, plus $X. Fundamental relationship of property to people, unchanged.)

On the cost side: (Six people will be deciding whether to transfer money from their accounts to those of attorneys or those of the City of Olympia / County of Thurston.) Maybe also serving jail time (which can be made a benefit if it is used to organize inmates inside).

To me, that is not worth it overall.

But is it immoral? Only to the extent that endangering the safety of whomever was on the other side of that glass is immoral. So yes, it is.

But is it immoral because it was a bank's window that got broken? No - on that abstract level an argument can easily be rationalized that the violence of the rock is pale in comparison to the violence of property, which is bathed in violence in both its acquisition and protection. But since this larger violence is NOT EVEN ADDRESSED in the action itself, the rock thrower cannot claim even this abstract justification.

We could easily confuse the issues here and fall into a discussion of violence / nonviolence, but that is beside the point. We're swimming in violence only partially addressed by the movement which made May Day a holiday in the first place, trying to figure out how to address the remaining, and in many ways increased, violence of the system itself. The issue is whose violence is being used, and how to subvert that violence which is used against us. Ineffective, misdirected violence is not a viable solution to the hyper-organized violence of the State (and has been a documented script of provocateurs in the past.)

Yes, to your last sentence.

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 11:31pm.

But I do think you are underestimating the cost side. The bullshit that happened yesterday makes it even less likely that local immigrants will participate in future May Day or similar activities in the future. That's a terrible loss of trust.

Too true

Submitted by DrewHendricks on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 11:34pm.

You're absolutely right. I just didn't want to spend all night coming up with the perfect list... it really is a lot longer.

Drew's calculations are well

Submitted by olybrett on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 10:53am.

Drew's calculations are well thought out. Much more so than the actions of the "rock throwers" on May Day. My thoughts go to the more than a dozen folks in Federal Prisons for the actions of the ALF/ELF cells in the NW within the last dozen years. The actions of these folks were thought through, planned and executed when no people were present to be hurt, though fire-fighters were put in danger during efforts to extinguish the blazes. The arsonists did not hide their actions within a larger protest/rally, they took their actions on their own and chose their targets thoughtfully, though not always accurately and not without ramifications to the greater environmental movement. The burning of facilities at Vail caused a back-lash against activists who had been organizing a non-violent civil disobedience campaign against the Vail expansion into endangered species habitat. It is clear that a small cadre of dedicated and thoughtful arsonists can cause a lot more damage than a group of disgruntled kids clad in black hi-jacking a public event to get some attention for themselves. I urge the ultra-radicals involved in the recent May Day "riot" to do their homework. (Who is checking their homework?) Did the Weather Underground actions lead to the end of the Vietnam War? Did they aid in ensuring civil rights for anyone in the 60s? Did the burning of Vail end the expansion of ski resorts in the west? Did the burning of the UW Urban Horticulture building lead to an end in genetic engineering? I bet it felt great in the moment to see a ski lodge burn or a bank window collapse. But in the longer run, longer than just the moment of impact, these actions did not forward any cause they were meant to represent and publicize. If you really need the instant gratification that breaking a bank window is sure to bring, then do it at night when there is no-one inside to get hit with flying glass. Your point will be made and you will be less likely to spend time in jail. Of course you will only get your picture in the paper when your fellow "radicals" turn you in later to save their own ass from rotting in jail.

Missing from the caluclations above

Submitted by Laurian on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 5:48am.

is the good will of real and potential allies who may not be as Left wing as Mr. Hendricks.

I second that, Laurian

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 7:20am.

Dispite many of my "left wing" social leanings, I do function in society, do business with banks and so forth. Let us not forget the substantial amounts of money put back into our communitys via the banking business, not to mention the goodwill of its employees.

I third that!

Submitted by chad360 on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 11:45am.

I am so disgusted by the para-military meme that is infecting social activism, esp. in Oly.

What is the goal? Provoke the gov into declaring martial law? Start a brush war in the US?

I'm with Norm: dress like a bandit, and you will be treated like a bandit...

The line that all of this is to raise awareness is wearing thin...

...and I'm concerned for our social fabric here in Oly (the trust issue is very important).

I Swore I'd Never Do This Again But

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 12:31pm.

If so many of you peaceful protesters are so disgusted by the actions of the rock throwers and black blocs and rowdy participant why didn't you do anything to stop them instead of distancing yourselves from them or walking away while it was happening?

makes me feel like a coward...

Submitted by chad360 on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 12:35pm.

...for not showing up.

What did you think of the vid Gug found?

People are afraid.

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 12:59pm.

People expect someone else to take charge. People sometimes do not recognize the moment when it is necessary to intervene. People don't want to be "part of the violence." Lots of reasons Onry. That's not to say people don't try. Some do, but not enough. It's a rather common human flaw.

But When Someone Else Takes Charge

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 1:26pm.

ie ~ Law Enforcement. They scream police brutality? If you look at the photos from yesterday's article, you can see the people recognizing the moment when it's necessary to intervene in the picture of the kid getting ready to throw the rock. Why didn't they do anything? Follow the guy until *someone else* took charge at least? How is that being part of the violence?

You were there. Did you see anyone try? Seriously? Where were the those willing to do the right thing by pulling off the protesters who were trying to prevent police from making arrests? It wouldn't be a personal safety issue for me at that point. I'd react out of sheer adreneline because I believe in following the law and doing the right thing.

It goes beyond common human flaw. I believe if you didn't do anything to stop it, be it just following the rock throwers until you could point them out to a police officer and be willing to identify them and their crime or pulling off somebody trying to prevent an arrest, you really didn't see anything wrong with it happening.

I really don't feel like my words will make a difference.

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 1:42pm.

It's like Wilson's response to the vidoe I posted. People see what they want to see. I'll just let my first response speak for itself.

I Totally Feel Your Frustration Gug

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 1:56pm.

I can't believe the myriad of emotions I'm going through all over again from yet another violent protest in my city from mostly outsiders who don't even live here.

I get what you're saying in your first post and maybe let my emotions come through too much in my response.

On a positive note, short of Wilson, for the first time we're all in agreement on our thoughts and feelings in regards to a protest! : ) That's the only reason I broke my never posting here again rule. We're all in so much pain over it, coming together to console one another helps. I've said my peace, I'm logging back out now...

I wonder if those folks in masks...

Submitted by The Original Yoda on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 1:20pm.

...know how intimidating they are?

I'd like to think that I'd say or do something if I saw a black hooded and masked rock-thrower but that might depend on some variables. Like my safety and safety of others around me.

I don't believe they're

Submitted by ctqwn on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 2:34pm.

I don't believe they're trying to make a fashion statement. I believe their intent is to be intimidating to everyone, including the peaceful participants in a protest.

And I share the same general feeling as Onry regarding the lack of intervention on the part of the crowd when the whole thing started to turn to destruction and violence.

My thought is that those folks who make the plans for a protest such as this apparently have a message and purpose they feel passionate about, and they want the general public to see and hear it. It would seem like past experience would suggest the liklihood of anarchist/black bloc/whatever other negative counter culture revolutionary types could try to co-opt that message w/ some attention-getting distraction of their own. Why not anticipate and be prepared for that? Protesters in the crowd are in a position to deal w/ these trouble-makers much quicker than the cops. It's like teenagers having a big party because mom and dad are out of town, and a bunch of uninvited bad kids crash the party. Adults should be able to foresee and handle problems better than that.

Good Analogy

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 2:45pm.

and your last sentence summed it up well. I'd like to add that even teenagers at those big parties do a much better job recognizing and policing the uninvited bad kids who crash the parties than any adult participating in this protest did yesterday or any of the other violent protest that have occured in the past.

Right on

Submitted by Matthew Green on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 6:09pm.

At this point, all activists in Olympia are tainted by the actions of the "black bloc". To have any political influence on any issue at all, local activists will need to publicly and loudly denounce the "black bloc"-types. Even better, they should turn them in to the police, as they should have done during the protest.

Consider this: because of the rock throwing, the sanctuary city proposal is already dead -- and no councilmember will pay any political price for killing it. The only agenda advanced here is the juvenile agenda of people who like to throw rocks.

Matthew

sanctuary city

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 6:25pm.

I think it's unfair to connect the Sanctuary City Proposal with the events of last Thursday.

Separate issues. It is wrong to discriminate against an important proposal because of the destructive actions of a small but vocal minority.

The rock-throwing does not represent, and in fact goes against, the sentiment and will of the Peace and Justice community.

I commented on TheOlympian.com article about the Sanctuary City Proposal, here's the comment amended for use here:

Did the Sanctuary City Proposal have any real chance of passing the City Council prior to the rock-throwing incidents? [or will the council use the may day violence as a scape-goat?]

I am [as I am sure you are also] in full support of a Sanctuary City Status for Olympia. It is an important step in providing protection for those who are honorable and courageous enough to refuse service in an illegal war of aggression. The military is being used as the strong arm of big business.

The military service personnel of the USA are being abused and misused in an operation that is designed to control and exploit the resources of Iraq (and the region.)

If we TRULY support our troops, then we will offer them amnesty and protection as the Sanctuary City Proposal is accepted by the City Council.

bert

I agree its unfair

Submitted by Matthew Green on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 7:04pm.

...to connect the sanctuary city proposal to the rock throwing. But they ARE linked, politically, because of rock throwing at a march in support of the proposal.

I am not criticizing the proposal; in fact, I support it. I am criticizing the rock throwers who screwed it up.

Yeah, maybe the council would not have passed it anyway. But now they have a much easier political excuse. Furthermore, it will be much harder to pass anything even remotely connected to the rock throwers.

If the rock throwers do not represent the Peace and Justice Movement, then the Peace and Justice Movement (if it wishes to have any local political influence) needs to strongly condemn the rock throwers and to repeat that condemnation until it enters public consciousness.

Matthew

"If the rock throwers do not

Submitted by ctqwn on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 8:45pm.

"If the rock throwers do not represent the Peace and Justice Movement, then the Peace and Justice Movement (if it wishes to have any local political influence) needs to strongly condemn the rock throwers and to repeat that condemnation until it enters public consciousness."

I agree completely. Right now, the public consciensness is full up to the gills w/ the notion that the rock throwing damage is the fault of TESC students, even though the Daily O's front page story says that only two of the six arrested are TESC students. Sometime perception is everything, though it may be unfair, and the Peace and Justice folks really need to put a lot of distance between themselves and those who think violence is the answer.

I could easily get behind the sanctuary concept, but that message has been tainted and lost for the time being. As irritating as that may be to someone who hadn't heard much about it like me, it should be infuriating for anyone who cares enough about it to participate in a march, or even to take the time to attend a city council meeting to promote it. That kind of feeling should be made known, if it exists.

A very good point

Submitted by Matthew Green on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 10:20pm.

The people with the most reason to be upset with the rock throwers, because they have been most hurt by the rock throwers, are the people who most care about the sanctuary city proposal.

It's sad.

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 10:49pm.

It's frustrating and sad. However, I think it still worthwhile to attend the City Council Meeting and advocate for the Sanctuary City.

I think it can be made clear that the merits of the proposal should be judged independently of what happened on Thursday. It's my understanding that the disruptiveness and violent acts were not committed by those who are working directly on the Sanctuary City Project.

Decide on the Sanctuary City Proposal based on the qualities of the proposal. Don't base the decision on public opinion, or on Thursday's violence, which was really not, for all practical purposes, related to the Sanctuary City effort. It's pretty simple.

In the light of an illegal war and an immoral foreign policy, the sanctuary city proposal is the right thing to do.

Still no Answer

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 11:01pm.

Understandly, OlyBlog is not omnipresent in its reach, even though here at OlyBlog "We Are the Media."

I and many others have asked many questions here. But the lack of a response is perhaps the most telling signature of all.

I want an answer. I want to know why. I want to know what the intended and desired outcomes were. I want to understand. It is not enough justification to say that these banks deserve to have rocks thrown through their windows. What purpose did the window-breaking rock-throwing serve?

I hope that there will be a silver-lining in all of this. Perhaps the Peace and Justice community can gain a better sense of the importance of nonviolence in the struggle.

Perhaps the Peace and Justice Movement can find a greater participation, renewal, and even a sense of meaning as it gathers as a community to address this recent (past two years or so) epidemic of violence.

My two cents...

Submitted by security_six on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 11:08pm.

I don't believe there was an evil intent to discredit the non violent community in Oly. Rather based on an admittedly limited study, that this was a tactic to incite further violence and try and cause the system to cave in, or to "strike a blow" against an "unjust" system.

Guerrilla warfare, sniping, hit and run, whatever you want to call it.

Worked pretty dang good didn't it?

Cost some banks money, cost the city money, and a few people who have a twisted ideology will get to become martyrs to their cause.

Meanwhile their beliefs are that "revolution" won't come without breaking a few eggs. Somewhere, some people are high fiveing each other for "striking a blow" and planning their next little campaign.

The sad and scary thing is that if several dozen small groups were to plan and practice these sort of small strikes, things could get very uncomfortable real quick in Oly.

We sit at a dangerous edge right now, hopefully vigiglance and watchfulness by the people of Olympia can pull us back.

I don't agree with just about everything you are endorsing Robert, and I know you don't espouse most of my causes, but I think we can view the "black bloc" as a problem that must be dealt with.

The best solution is to drag them into the sunshine where they quickly wither.

Frodo has failed. Bush and Cheney have the ring.

Comments Closed

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 7:56pm.

Ignorance is the enemy.

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