Murders On The Westside

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Murders On The Westside

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sat, 03/29/2008 - 2:07pm.

Many of you may have heard that two men were found dead at their camp on the west side of Olympia yesterday. I just had a conversation with Commander Tor Bjornstad of the OPD about this. He informed me that it was indeed a murder, and that three suspects had been arrested, two of whom have admitted to taking some part in the murders. Signs of blunt trauma were found on the bodies; the police and the coroner are trying to determine whether the men were killed and then burned in a possible cover-up attempt, or if they were burned alive. Commander Bjornstad said that they're pretty certain who the victims are, but are waiting for final confirmation from the coroner before releasing any names. At that point, they will attempt to notify next of kin.

This is an opportunity for us to have a serious conversation about camping and safety and community. I firmly believe that had these men been staying in a "legitimate" camp, with many others around them, this event would have never happened. We can look to Camp Quixote as a model for this. Time and again, across the country, it has been proven that giving people a space to exist and work together to help one another makes them safer and increases the chances of them getting into services and back on their feet, without huge amounts of taxpayer dollars. Having people scattered in the woods is dangerous, it makes them disposable, like these two men, whose memories will likely be blown away in the winds of the news cycle.

This is not the first time this kind of thing has happened in our community, nor the second or third. It has, does, and will continue to happen until we as a community decide to put a stop to it.

I propose that we find three or four plots of public land that we classify as campgrounds for those who need them. If we regulate it, much like we do Camp Quixote, we can keep a handle on health and safety concerns. There was recently an article that talked about camps being abandoned and trash being left behind. In an official campground, that would no longer be an issue because the community would take ownership and would police itself. This model has worked at Camp Quixote, and it can work again, with just a little help from the community, not in the form of tax dollars, but just a little time and empowerment.

Rob Richards's blog
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Policy out of tragedy

Submitted by stevenl on Sat, 03/29/2008 - 2:53pm.

Constructive suggestions, Rob. Camp Quixote has now been around long enough to learn from and use as a template.

Very sad

Submitted by DJW on Sat, 03/29/2008 - 3:22pm.

My thoughts go out to the families of these two men. Sad situation indeed.

Is the goal to find public lands to convert into a camp or to find someone to donate properties? I ask for a few reasons. From experience I've found some communities not to be very supportive of this type of living situation. Many years ago in a different city I was trying to 'convert' a rental into transitional housing for homeless. I fought tooth and nail for months to get this done but finally I ran out of patience and energy.

Does anyone know why these two chose not to seek refuge at Camp Quixote? I'm all for finding some sort of permanent location but I think getting publicly funded lands or asking for additional tax dollars may not be the right approach at this time. It would be great if there was someone who would donate the property. Of course that would bring about another set of problems.

Thanks

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sat, 03/29/2008 - 3:35pm.

First, there are already makeshift encampments in wooded areas, we just need to formalize them. Public would indeed be the easiest, but no matter what there will be code/zoning issues that will have to be dealt with. One way Camp Quixote and the City of Olympia worked this out was through temporary use permits.

Second, if they did seek refuge at Camp Quixote they would have had to wait in line. The camp is always full, as the need is much greater than their capacity. I would never ask for tax dollars, that's the lazy way out of a situation. I think if a group of people in the community work with local jurisdictions (and it doesn't always have to be the City of Olympia you know, Lacey could start pulling their weight already) we could come up with a community based solution that would require very little public funds.

Agreed

Submitted by JulieM on Sat, 03/29/2008 - 3:32pm.

Hearing about this today made me feel sick. Granted, all of the details of what happened haven't been released yet, but I can't help but feeling like our society's disdain with people that are homeless allows this type of thing to happen.

There's an update in the Olympian

Submitted by Phil Owen on Sat, 03/29/2008 - 4:17pm.

According to the Olympian, the three people who were arrested lived in a nearby camp, and had an ongoing feud with the victims. The victims were assaulted. It sounds like the fire may have been accidental, though the assailants did nothing to put it out.

Had an event like this occured at Camp Quixote, the assault would have been stopped by fellow camp members and the assailants would have been thrown out. No one would have died.

Rob is right about the wait list at the tent city; it can sometimes take several weeks to get in. There are also other barriers. Yesterday I spoke with a fellow who is about to be evicted from his camp in Lacey (also in the Olympian today), and he really valued his privacy. It sounded like the folks camping in the area know each other and communicate regularly and check up on each other, but the distance (50 yards or more between camps) allows for some privacy and peace & quiet. This is one drawback of Camp Quixote; when the person in the tent next to you snores, you can hear it. On the other hand, the fellow being evicted is strongly considering moving to Camp Quixote for safety/security reasons. We really need more tent cities like Camp Q, if we want to keep the homeless population safe.

The Canaanite's Call

Urgh!

Submitted by Phil Owen on Sat, 03/29/2008 - 4:33pm.

May God grant me the common sense to stay way the hell away from the Olympian comments page. Like walking in a sewer.

The Canaanite's Call

I know just how you feel

Submitted by jlw on Mon, 03/31/2008 - 6:25am.

It's horrible, isn't it? I know one woman who vowed never to read the comments again, saying "I want to like my neighbors." It's very distressing to see how puerile and mean some of the people in our community are.

I second that

Submitted by DJW on Sat, 03/29/2008 - 5:42pm.

Comment Mr. Owen. I have decided that no good can come from posting comments on the Olympian blog. I quit about a year ago. (Correction, I posted a comment a few weeks ago asking people to quit acting like children.)

Back to this topic.

I've been trying to think of locations where it won't impact existing neighbors and not cost any additional taxpayer money. Right now I'm at a loss. Here's the problem that I'm coming up with..... Lots of accessible land 'farther out' but that defeats the purpose of having a location close to services, i.e., transportation for one. Coming closer into town seriously restricts possibilities.

Supply and demand

Submitted by rebecca on Sat, 03/29/2008 - 6:14pm.

Thinking a little into the future, if you have a "development" with enough residents in it, and those residents would use public transportation, you would have a very strong case for a new route (or changes to an existing route) to serve them. (I had to include the "would use public transportation" part because some people have their own vehicles and prefer it that way . . . if we were talking about an upper-class neighborhood, and 99.9% wouldn't use the bus if they had it - it might be a bit harder to make the case for giving them a route.)

If a bus route can't be arranged at the time the community is established, then you may still have temporary problems (as well as any uncertainty of whether you will get the route).

First, will people move to the community if they don't have easy access? If not, you may have yourself a chicken-egg dilemma: No route without residents, no residents without route.
Second, how big is the access problem? Are there less convenient, but acceptable alternatives? What, if any, services are near enough by? What services, if any, aren't readily accessible? Access to some things (such as a grocery store) are more essential than access to other things (such as a library, perhaps).

Another possibility would be to establish a transportation system based in the community. Perhaps a carpool system could be encouraged. Some homeless people have vehicles, right? (If people who had been living out of a car wanted to park their vehicle in the community, I suppose they would be allowed to join as much as the tent folks . . . and maybe some of them would be willing to give others a lift into town . . . perhaps sharing gas expenses . . . perhaps a parking area could be designated to encourage car people to join.) Perhaps a few old vans could be purchased for the community and residents with drivers' licenses could volunteer as vanpool drivers. Residents would have to chip in for gas/repair/licensing costs. But even Intercity Transit charges fares. It could be a truly community-based transportation system. It would take some organizing, of course! Donations could also be solicited from the community . . . I don't know how successful that would be.

Condolences...

Submitted by Chia on Sat, 03/29/2008 - 6:34pm.

Very sad news, indeed.

Condolences and thanks

Submitted by stevenl on Sat, 03/29/2008 - 6:57pm.

To our public servants who have to deal with the fallout from this crime. Not a job I envy, I'm sure it takes a toll. I happened to drive by the crime scene when the yellow tape was out and the investigators were all over the place. It was chilling, and for some reason easy to guess what was going on. That was close enough for me.

First off...

Submitted by security_six on Sat, 03/29/2008 - 10:38pm.

My condolence's to the victims' families.

Then a thank you to local LEO's and medics who had to clean this grisly scene up.

Then a long and profane string of angry curses.

That said murders between people who are "fueding" do happen, home, campsite or apartment buildings.

It will be a while before the facts come out on this, but I would suggest that THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED anyplace there were people in close proximity to each other with bad feelings.

That it happened at all is a travesty.

It is never ok to murder someone. I for one am curious to learn if the alleged attackers had mental health or anger management issues.

Urgh. Not happy news.

"I think there was something funny in that hippie."--Lrrr ruler of Omicron Persei 8

"Whoa, I feel like I'm flying"-- Lrrr, shortly after eating the hippie.

question

Submitted by noradarno on Sun, 03/30/2008 - 8:48am.

(do not flame this is a question only to create a more rounded discourse.) Since this was transient on transient violence; based, on what reports say reports says, "Was a long running dispute between campers in a neighboring tent," who is to say that this would not happen in a situation like Camp Quixote? The incident happened late at night, and from what all reports seem to indicate, and I don't think it would take a large logical leap to say that it could have happened in a more populated situation at that hour. It isn't like Quixote is monitored by the police 24-7 (I am not saying that they should, in fact it would be an impeadment of civil liberties.)

Good question

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 03/30/2008 - 9:10am.

There have been disputes at Camp Quixote, none of them have led to violence however. There is a huge difference in atmosphere between a loose gathering of campers in a wooded area, and an actual organized camp where there is a mission and people work together to help one another. I maintain that this situation would not have resulted in two deaths had it taken place in a more community based camping environment. You don't need to have constant police presence to break up a fight, or better yet, have some kind of a process in place to handle personal disputes immediately so that they don't build up like this.

The camp does their own

Submitted by Phil Owen on Sun, 03/30/2008 - 9:25am.

The camp does their own policing. If there's a fight (this has been extremely rare), other campers jump in to break it up. The time of day or night isn't relevant; a fight is noisy and would wake the other campers if it happened at night.

There is also a 24 hour presence through the Hospitality/Host Tent. During the day the tent is generally staffed by volunteers from the broader community; the camp covers most of the night-time shifts. This ensures that someone is awake at night in case of problems, it helps address the concerns of neighbors, and it also provides the campers a sense of being taken care-of or safety.

Additionally, there are some pretty strong regulations in terms of heaters, cookers, open flames, etc, to minimize or eliminate the risk of fire.

The Canaanite's Call

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