Practical reasons for counter demonstration

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Practical reasons for counter demonstration

Submitted by Rick on Mon, 01/23/2006 - 11:13am.

[via omjp from Zoltan Grossman]

I too am proud of our new home of Olympia. Debi and I were out of town and did not know of the counterrally until too late. We are glad to hear how it turned out.

We have both witnessed and documented Nazi rallies and Chicago and anti-Indian hate mobs in Wisconsin. I'm reading with interest the debate that developed within the local movement this weekend. This kind of debate has occurred many times in other cities responding to hate group marches. The debates seem to follow ideological lines, with people stating what they think is the approach that most suits their own values.

But many of the groups (such as the Center for New Community http://www.newcomm.org ) that have been studying these fascist groups for many years warn strongly against an "ignore-them" approach or a "rally somewhere else" approach for very PRACTICAL reasons:

1. Hate group organizers hold rallies not simply to attract attention or media, but to RECRUIT new followers. To not have a visible counterrally in the immediate vicinity means that local people could more easily attend their rally, with little risk of being recognized. Do we want some naive white high school kids attracted to the Nazis to start on the path to ruining his or her life, and the lives of others in our community?

2. The fascist organizations hold rallies also as a "hazing" process for their new recruits. If the recruits feel there is little risk or stigma to participate, they become emboldened-- which usually means more violent. They feel safer to organize in a community that does not raise a strong visible response.

3. The groups also rally to directly instill terror in communities of color, and to marginalize other communities. A Center for New Community organizer told of us of a Klan rally that was only countered by a community response many blocks away. An African American woman (who did not know of the counterevent) got off a bus nearby the Klan rally, and was terrified that no one in the community had stood up to the Klan.

Whatever our abstract values about pacifism or love/hate, here are good practical reasons to stand up to hate groups in visible and creative ways, and there is room for many diverse ways to respond. Some organizing tips are summarized in the training handbook "When Hate Groups Come to Town," by the Center for Democratic Renewal in Atlanta: http://www.publiceye.org/cdr/cdrwhenh.html

Rick's blog
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Thanks for posting this here,

Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 01/23/2006 - 12:15pm.

Thanks for posting this here, Rick, I very much appreciate what he wrote.

Amen on all points. There was

Submitted by emmettoconnell on Mon, 01/23/2006 - 3:23pm.

Amen on all points. There was a discussion prior to the protest(s) wondering whether supporting the Nazis' free speach included not counter-protesting. I'm glad we put up a fight, though not necessarily in love with the spitting and swearing, but I'm glad it didn't go any further.

It is important to give a counterpoint when you feel someone is in the wrong. Free speach includes disagreeing, and if anyone wanted to show up just to hang out with the Nazis yesterday, I'm sure they got the point that hate isn't socially acceptable in Olympia.

First, I hate what the Nazi'

Submitted by Deep Diver on Mon, 01/23/2006 - 8:07pm.

First, I hate what the Nazi's stand for but I'm disappointed with the behavior of the group that was there to anti-protest.

I have a friend that is a Sgt. at OPD, and he told me the "greener" crowd were the worst behaved. They got more unruly, spitting on the squad cars, and even did minor assaults against the Nazi's. In-fact the cops had to save the Nazi's. The good side stooped to the low level of these bums. That denegrates your message.

Second, with that said, what happened to the tolerance? You may not agree with what they stand for, but yet you all seem justified by your behavior at the demonstration. They didn't do anything other than demostrate. Yes their message is a bad one, most will agree with that. But many believe the Pro-life message is a bad one too. Or as has been discussed here ad-nauseam, the homosexual agenda.

I frequently read here about tolerance. But that tolerance seems to only extend to what the liberals want. When it comes to tolerance for issues that are important to conservatives, we "aren't listening" we are "wingnuts", etc. So your tolerance isn't boundless, only when it fits the liberal agenda.

So Rob W. you have said that HATE is never to be tolerated. How about the behavior by the non-Nazi crowd at the demonstration. Clearly there was a message of hate directed to these guys. Was it ok?

No. I think more could have b

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Mon, 01/23/2006 - 8:09pm.

No. I think more could have been accomplished if the "counter-protesors" behaved according to more strictly non-violent principles.

"Problems can never be solved by using the same pattern of thought which created them." - Albert Einstein

Rob Whitlock has actually bee

Submitted by The Fire Inside on Mon, 01/23/2006 - 8:23pm.

Rob Whitlock has actually been one who felt that simply ignoring the group, specific to their rally yesterday, would have been more productive than a counter-protest.

Yesterday does little to squash the belief many feel that the far left is only interested in protecting their own free speech.

At least the neo-Nazis don't attempt to say they're interested in equality and free speech for all.

Like I said before, if this were a socialist group and they were shouted down and out by a large group, I'm sure most of Olympia would claim it's a violation of their right to peacefully organize.

Many of us did apply non viol

Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 01/23/2006 - 9:12pm.

Many of us did apply non violent principles. Many.

I should get myself a drum to accompany myself and others on this message. I was all over town yesterday. I saw faith communities able to express their wishes and engage in coalition building. I heard songs. I heard folks express what was in their hearts with passion and peaceful hopes.

I saw a church protected. I saw communities learning that they were respected by the rest of us and that we would stand with them if they were targetted.

I heard and participated in conversations ranging from how to make sure we weren't baited into violent verbal reactions, how to be safe afterwards, how to keep our spirits up, to how to tell good jokes as we tromped along to the next site.

I saw a little girl walk up with her aunt to two police cars and thank the police officers within for helping keep our community safe.

I hope you also got a chance

Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 01/23/2006 - 9:07pm.

I hope you also got a chance to read my observations too. Very important that we not lump everyone together. As I've written elsewhere, many many Olympians yesterday were peaceful and dedicated. Healthy important coalitions were built with faith communities.

One of the officers I thanked yesterday for all their work told me that the minority of young folks who were assaultive and spitting etc were indeed their main concern. I could see that that was true. That group was not predictable and some were not even that wise when it came to their own safety, much less the safety of the rest of us.

That being said, again I want to remind us that people of all sorts and philosophies and experiences gathered pretty much spontaneously on next to no notice.

I know that I and the people I was with behaved with maturity and were peaceful.

Lumping us all together serves no one. Yes, we can disagree with various strategies and tactics, I simply encourage us to see the whole picture. There were some mighty fine things that happened yesterday also.

I e-mailed city hall today also to let them know how much I appreciate our local police.

Rob W. Even though I rare

Submitted by Deep Diver on Mon, 01/23/2006 - 8:58pm.

Rob W.

Even though I rarely agree with you, I respect you for standing by your beliefs. And you answered the question without being mealy-mouthed or avoiding the question by asking another question. And you did so even though it was outside what the majority here have expressed. Bravo.

Thanks for saying that DD.

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Mon, 01/23/2006 - 10:48pm.

Thanks for saying that DD.

I do think that it's important to acknowledge the fear that the nazis' visit to Olympia created. I don't think it is okay for the nazis to come here and intend to intimidate people, whether it be for matters of race, physical handicap, sexual orientation, or whatever.

I was kind of let down about the whole day, citizen activists attempting to take justice into their own hands... things getting out of hand, the police having to step in. That's lame for sure.

But then I realized that people have an understandable and rational fear of these NSM characters. It makes it a lot easier for me to accept what happened, now that I understand it a little better. Once I thought about it in that way, I began to feel a little fear myself though! That's life I guess.

"Or as has been discussed her

Submitted by djmega on Tue, 01/24/2006 - 4:08am.

"Or as has been discussed here ad-nauseam, the homosexual agenda."

WTF??? the homosexual agenda?? "ad nauseum"? get over it! you live in one of the queerest towns on the continent, so you might wanna get some alka-seltzer.

"I frequently read here about tolerance. But that tolerance seems to only extend to what the liberals want. When it comes to tolerance for issues that are important to conservatives, we "aren't listening" we are "wingnuts", etc."

Deep Diver, are you implying that by being intolerant of the agenda of hate and genocide, people are being intolerant of "issues that are important to conservatives"?

Edit

Submitted by Deep Diver on Tue, 01/24/2006 - 5:38am.

Edit

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