I hate to say it, but I agree with the Olympian. If the first outing came and went with no fanfare, the Nazi's would have looked elsewhere for what they want. Large groups, controversy, and their 15 minutes of fame.

They want recruits. This is an ongoing recruitment drive, in progress. The NSM is a national Neo-Nazi group looking to recruit from the current pool of loose white supremacists. Various white supremacist groups have recently broken up due to in-fighting etc., this is an ideal time to recruit, along with the fact that our economy sucks and there are more people looking for answers. Which the NSM says they provide.

How would we make sure no one responds? Imagine back on 1/22 here in Olympia, what if no one responded? Sounds lovely, the NSM packs up their toys and leaves? But what about the family getting off the bus nearby who have to cope with what they see in front of them, who realize that no one in town apparently gives a damn about their safety?

Why isn't a diverse array of responses and strategies seen as a -good- thing instead of as something messy/bad and to be controlled? Also, why are targets blamed for somehow causing Nazis to keep on nazi-ing?

Silence is some sort of luxury that many of us just don't have.

(I put this in the wrong place in thread, supposed to be reply to white feather.)

From what I heard the Nazi's were in more control than the hippies. In-fact, someone said the cops had to rescue the Nazi's from the hippies. Sounds like the people at the bus stop would have been just fine.

The "other side", I call hippies, have singlehandedly given this group a reason to come back. We could have ignored them the first time and would have had a 50/50 chance of that being the one event. Now, they have a reason to come back. And many on this blog keep "poking the dog". Now it's likely they will get people from their group to come from all over the nation, and maybe with some real bad asses in the group. If we end up with a big group here and lots of violence, the hippies have ownership in that violence.

There may be a lot of education on this blog, but not much common sense.

If this is indeed a Jim Ramm quote, I think it might be illuminating about their motivations (i.e. to incite aggravated response and provoke direct reaction):

Expect more racialist flyers and more nazi rallies. Please protest us! We enjoy the conflict. I been doing some thinking...Even if I didn't believe in fascism I would still promote it.

Why? Because it's the most powerful tool I have to piss people off.

The best thing in the world is to upset a crowd to the point they riot and watch them go to jail for it!
Now that's entertainment!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!
Jim Ramm NSM Northwest

If my hippie label has offended, that wasn't my intention......I thought it was a rather innocuous label. And I don't want to get off topic here, but many of the things said in the "write your caption" thread were much worse than my using the hippie term. In the 60's and 70's the term hippie was almost an endearing term.

I just hope this community doesn't feel a much bigger pain from these Nazi's, because of the counter-group (there, no hippie label). I personally believe the community should have ignored them. If they continued and amped up, then the community could respond in force. But when you go 0-100 out of the gate, it plays into their hand, and leaves little room to amp up if they do. And I hate that the reaction of some have essentially empowered them.

I hope you and Sarah are correct, and I'm wrong. I guess we will see soon enough.

I'm surprised at how relaxed people seem to feel about the NSM targeting Olympia. My husband and I watched a documentary about a similar group on A&E a few nights ago - the image of the young man talking about how he didn't get along with his father but he could feel at home with the white power group and looked at the leader as a father figure really hit home with us. My husband is a teacher at a public high school and he sees kids that could easily be that boy on a daily basis. He told me it frightened him to think about how many kids can be swayed into a group like that with talk of "family" and the such. I think our response to the NSM needs to be precise and to the point - I also think that can happen on many different levels from educating our community to a counter demonstration. Ignoring them doesn't make them go away - it just gives them that extra protection of people in our community being ignorant to their presence and motives. Hate groups like these are growing and I can't help but wonder if it's in part because so many people think that if they ignore it that they'll just disappear. I think that people need to stand up and say that this is not okay. And I would hope that no one would blame the NSM coming here on the people who are speaking up and saying that this is unacceptable.

I notice that much of the advice to "ignore the NSM" or alternatively, to "respect their First Amendment Rights" assumes that the message of the Nazis - while repugnant - is somehow neutral. That it is merely another point on a continuum of opinion. That the expression of their views is within bounds and acceptable, as long as they are not actually physically violent.

As someone who has read extensively the history of Nazi camps in the 1930's and 1940's, I assert that their message is anything BUT neutral. I might have a right to political free speech, but I don't have the right to shout "fire" in a crowded theatre. I argue that shouting "6 Billion More" on the streets of Olympia is less political speech than hate speech. It's like shouting "kike" in a synagogue, or shouting "nigger" in a Baptist Church. You can say all you want about the NSM following the law, but if I went around talking in graphic terms about killing the Bush Administration, I'd have an interview with a Secret Service agent really soon. When the NSM says they would kill a man (in my presence) for being gay, that is not neutral. That is assault. It happened within earshot of several police officers, who did nothing to confront it - because they were sorely outnumbered and needed to keep as much order as they could.

The same could be said of the other side; I heard more than one shout of "death to the Nazis." I heard several people shouting things which would embarass me, if I had said them. One man shouted "pussies! pussies!" over and over at the Nazis. The definition of clueless, in a town which invented the image of the Riot Grrrl...

The request to ignore them is not going to be accepted by many of us. Someone is going to be confronting them, and that confrontation is likely to be hateful. But we _should_ hate the Nazis' politics - it is the politics of factories eating surplus workers, literally starving them to death while extracting the last of their labor from them at the same time. It is not just white "pride." It is not a mirror version of black nationalism. It is a genocidal impulse, explicitly stated.

Our tactics, even after all of this, should be to silently shadow their movements, and use our voices to sing or ridicule them rather than shout assaults. But we should NOT be absent from their venue, if we have any notion that they will be somewhere. They have to be challenged. They are the trial balloon for what the Bush Admin wants to do with those camps you heard about in the news recently. We already have a prison population - per capita - larger than Nazi Germany in 1944-45. Larger than the USSR ever. Larger than China now. Largest in Human History. And we have camps, too - labor camps, for first time nonviolent drug offenders and 'troubled youth.' The camps in Germany started much the same way, for exacly the same reasons. We are already closer to being the Third Reich in this country than most are willing to admit.

Drew, although I disagreed with it, your post had credibility until the last paragraph. Are you saying the Bush administration is some how supporting the Nazi movement in this country??

Mad Housewife, the Nazi's don't need to come to town to get your kids. All they need is MIA parents, crappy home life, lack of supervision, the internet, the TV, the radio, and they have them. The same way gangs get your kids, the same way, druggies get your kids, the same way pedophiles get your kids. Yes I agree it is better if the Nazi's don't come here. We had a few wimpy, low level Nazi's come visit, we overreacted, and now we may get the heavy hitters. And they may be here longer, with more time to make contact with the kids who are adrift. I believe the hippies hearts were in the right place, but I really believe it was a tactical error to engage the little group like they did. Time will tell.

"VERY parallel to Nazi Germany, in my opinion."

You know what they say about opinions, Drew. I think your doing a little 1+2 and coming up with 15.

Well college boy, The Fire, what say you on Drew's assessment?

No problem, like I said when I re-read it, it did have an edge if you can't see my face, hear my voice etc.

But with that said, I can have passion on certain topics, and hopefully that style won't cause a problem. Nothing has hit my passion spot yet, but when it does hold on. :)

Here is (in their own words) what the NSM wants from a rally: note that I have edited it just a little, for one word. You can guess the word I am sure. _____________________________________________________ Everett Wa. Racial Awareness Rally A few of those whom attended (picture of 5 men taken by a 6th person) Seattle area Racial Patriots took to the streets on 3/5/06 to help educate the white race. NSM Units converged on the Everett Events Center located on Broadway: a very busy downtown street. NSM Patriots held their ground for 1.5 hours with no protesters, a few of onlookers and police. Not one anti-racist was present. Thousands of cars flew by and saw Swastika flags flying high in the air. Some people did flipped us off but a refreshing number Seig Heiled from their automobiles. We met three skinheads from the Everett area whom wanted to join the NSM. One filthy N*&&er threatened to murder us. Of course he wouldn't attack all by himself but instead threatened to get his fellow chimps to kill us. He was quite the cowardly groid. Come get some! The Everett White Unity gathering was one of our best rallies. Images to be posted soon. http://www.nukeisrael.com/seattleprotest/Everett.htm ______________________________________________________ Note that this was "one of our best rallies." and that "Not one anti-racist was present." So that must mean that they want us to ignore them. Just like the Olympian suggests we do... Hmmm.