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Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 3:12pm.

Reported by the Daily Olympian. Anyone seen the press release mentioned?

Oh, and I hope this is not seen as an invitation for us to "draw battle lines" and harangue each other. It's just news. I'm interested in the details of the suit.
»

A little background on the claimant Larry Mosqueda

http://www.neravt.com/left/WTC/mosqueda.html

http://academic.evergreen.edu/m/mosqueda/

http://www.olywip.org/site/page/author/larry_mosqueda.html

http://www.poyner.net/worldaction/horrified.html

http://www.omjp.org/ArtLarryDisobey.html

http://www.ilaam.net/Sept11/ProfessorsBlameUS.html

 

Ask me if I am surprised that this guy is joining in a law suit against the Olympia Police department! There is tons more about this guy by this guy and where he stands on things like Amreica, the military, and so on.

C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

A little background on claimant Daisy Montague

olywip.org

Audio from community forum

Audio from OlyBlog.

Search Results

I am not surprised that this person is involved in such a lawsuit. Are you surprised? I wonder if

Miss. Montague was a student of Mosqueda. Any bets?

C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

What A Piece Of Work!

One of her paragraphs in the first link begins

I am proud to have been arrested on these terms of civil disobedience along with the other courageous women. 

If she's so proud to have been a part of this train wreck and so proud of being arrested, why's she suing for $2.6 million? 

She admits they went down there prepared to be sprayed and took goggles and bandanas!  Now she's screaming brutality and wants to be rewarded for her bad choice?

I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"

»

Not sure why the dollar amount is a critical issue at this point

considering our collective ignorance of the details of the lawsuit. Can you elaborate? The northern California case regarding excessive force was recently decided by a jury. They awarded each plantiff $1 and those plantiffs were quite happy with that. Merwyn kindly started a venting thread if you're interested. But please feel free to post any details here as you run into them.
»

Curious,

can you explain the relevance of the student-teacher relationship with respect to the lawsuit? Is htere some kind of conflict of interest or ... I'm not sure what you're getting at.
»

A little background on the claimant William Hamilton

http://www.theolympian.com/101/story/70719.html

With this guy William Hamilton it is much harder to find information that I am confident it is relevant to 

the port protester. I'm sure there is more about him, but I will have to look further and harder to 

be sure it is about him. 

 

C.  

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

Links are nice.

Maybe take a little time from your busy schedule to learn how to insert them?
»

It's okay to be nice

and sarcasm isn't nice.
»

OD, here's a kite, you know

OD, here's a kite, you know what to do with it.  Take some time out from your schedule and learn how to cut and paste.
»

nt

nt
»

William Hamilton aka Wes Hamilton

I have known him for years, heres his blog http://expatchronicles.blogspot.com/
»

A little background on the claimant Adam Kohut

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=12000201

I am not 100% confident this is the same "Adam Kohut" but I am pretty sure. I found it interesting

who he listed as heros or people he admired. 

 

C.  

 

 

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

Okay, I'll ask nicely

Could you learn to make links? It would save us all a lot of time, and probably increase the number of people who actually visit the webpages you reference.
»

ctrl + C then to the address bar and ctrl + v and hit enter.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

The world is changing

Run a little faster if you want to catch the train!
»

Tschida ~ Since OD

can only complain instead of help by teaching you, I sent you a PM on how to hyperlink bud!

I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"

»

Maybe yours will be easier

Maybe yours will be easier to read and understand than the garbled mumbly instructions I sent him :-)
»

I Doubt It! LOL!

You're by far more eloquent than I am! 

Not to mention I used a bad word in my PM!  hehehe!

 

I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"

»

Maybe after you're done

Maybe after you're done bringing him into the 21st century, you can give me an etiquette lesson. I'm sure I could learn a lot at JstPlnOnry's Charm School!
»

Hmmm

It seems like he may not be the only one in need......
»

Gug,

"Oh, and I hope this is not seen as an invitation for us to "draw battle lines" and harangue each other."

Did you really think that was going to stop anybody?

image
»

Rob, I have faith in my fellow Olybloggers

nt
»

That's all well and good. Everything is fair game.

but I'd still like to tool up on less polarizing things...like the boring details of the lawsuit. Someone out there must have some info...no? Don't you contol these things Rob? Fess up.
»

I'm not big on frivilous

I'm not big on frivilous lawsuits but if cases like this enter our court system the truck drivers and companies they represent should be filling as well.

This is one time that I will be on court grounds in favor of the OPD.

»

Yes, I'm certain we all share one thing

and that is a desire for justice. Do you have some information you can share that makes you conclude this is a frivolous lawsuit? I'm guessing you're going with your gut right now, which is fine. All I know right now is that it is in the works.
»

Nothing I can share.  Look

Nothing I can share.  Look at the amount of $.  Is it about the money or about changing the way OPD approaches future protests.  You wanna play the lottery, buy a ticket.

Given the amount of money the city is being sued for I hope they go out and waste more city dollars by hiring a high-priced law firm.

Will the lawsuit see the courtroom?  Probably, but no jury is going to find in favor of the plaintiffs.  Mark my words.

»

Is it about the money or changing OPD?

I think that's a fair question. We can only speculate about their motivations right now. One may specualte that they are just "playing the lottery." Another may say they have no reason to believe Mosqueda's motivation is a finacial. Clearly, most speculation is going to have a strong idiological bias.

What makes you think they will lose?

»

I'll reserve further comment

I'll reserve further comment until I see the text of lawsuit.  I have ties to both the OPD and the city.

On the off chance they do win can you imagine the protest that might will follow?

»

Interesting quotes

University of Texas professor Robert Jensen has written that the terrorists' acts were "no more despicable than the massive acts of terrorism that the U.S. government has committed during my lifetime."

Richard Falk, a professor at Princeton University, has said that the terrorist attacks occurred because "the mass of humanity finds itself under the heels of U.S. economic, military, cultural and diplomatic power."

Professor Elisabeth Weber of the University of California-Santa Barbara wrote, "My concern over the U.S. flags surrounding campus is that they endanger the free exchange that normally characterizes our campus."

Rutgers University professor Barbara Foley wrote that "whatever [the terrorist attacks] proximate cause, its ultimate cause is the fascism of U.S. foreign policy over the past many decades."

Professor Howard Zinn of Boston University wrote, "We need to think about the resentment all over the world felt by people who have been victims of American military action - in Vietnam, in Latin America, in Iraq."

Evergreen State College of Olympia, Wash., professor Larry Mosqueda wrote, "If we multiply by 800-1,000 times the amount of pain, angst, and anger being currently felt by the American public, we might begin to understand how much the rest of the world feels as they are continually victimized [by the U.S.]..."

Professor George Wright of Chico State University in Chico, Calif., alleges that President Bush wants to "kill innocent people," "colonize" the entire Arab world and secure "oil for the Bush family..."

University of Minnesota Professor Ezra Hyland blamed Americans directly for the attacks, claiming that "you can't plant hatred and not expect to reap hatred."

Now, before someone calls me a "terrorist sympathizer", I'll state for the record that I, too, was mad as Hell on 9/11/01, not only at the loss of life taking place, but knowing that my daughter-in-law-to-be was a flight attendent on coast to coast routes for United.  Any one of those four planes could have been hers (luckily it wasn't).

I think if people are willing to read the quotes with open minds and with eyes not covered up by Old Glory, they will see a certain amount of truths.  Without going through each one, I was particularily interested in the U of Minnesota's Ezra Hyland saying "you can't plant hatred and not expect to reap hatred."  That quote is damned near bibical in context.

Whether I agree in total or not, all of these quotes bear some substance and could be topics of discussion within themselves.

»

Yes, there are some rather strong feelings regarding

events and certain individuals tangled up in all of this stuff. Do people think they will have any relevance with respect to the lawsuit? Perhaps some of Mosqueda's writing will be admissible. Kind of hard to say right now.
»

IMHO

It's a frivolous lawsuit that will be thrown out before it ever makes the courts. There's more evidence of them breaking laws than them being brutalized.

It's unfortunate our city felt there wasn't enough time and money to prosecute them all. Should it by some miracle make it to the courts, I'm confident OPD acted accordingly and this lawsuit will be found to have no merit.

Seriously, what constitutes $2.6 million a piece? Where did they come up with this number? Were any of them working and are now out of a job over this? Do any of them have lifetime disabilities now? Do they think a judgment of $2.6 million will make any emotional or mental stress just go away? What rights or inconveniences did they suffer to deserve $2.6 million each?

This is bogus and too many people work too hard to end up handing over that money in the form of compensation for what?

»

my guess

As the people organizing the protest made it apparent on several occasions that part of their goal is to make it financially prohibitive for our country to actively continue its wars, then petitioning for what is probably the maximum allowed fits in with that strategy %100.

If you assume that the people organizing this are doing it for stupid petty reasons then your conclusions will follow from those assumptions. If, however, you assume that this action is part of a coordinated effort to resist the American war machine, then you begin to see a slightly different picture.

»

Don't buy it.  $10 million

Don't buy it.  $10 million dollars from the city of Olympia will DO NOTHING to stop Washington D.C.  Nice theory though.  If financial ruin is the goal of OPMR they should get better organized and stop working in a silo.

»

domino affect

$10 million and the associated costs of the trial (along with the security around the Port during the protests) may be enough to make other Port managers and cities give pause. Again, my guess is that the amount is the maximum amount allowed by law. This is speculation, yes, but I highly doubt the lawsuit is not a part of a larger strategy.

»

Too many dominos out of

Too many dominos out of place in my opinion.  We'll see.  I pretty emotional charged about this so I'm gonna take a quick break.

»

You're right about those dominos

Tough to keep the emotions in check, I know. Still, I'm hoping people will pipe up to fill in some of the dominos in the meantime.
»

I assume that the primary

I assume that the primary purpose of this lawsuit is to pressure the OPD to be accountable for its violations of its policies.
»

Is there a reason you believe it's frivolous

Or is it just your initial reaction to the news? I can certainly imagine a scenario where I'd agree, but I just don't have enough information right now. I am ignorant of the nature of any crimes committed by the paintiffs, but it would be interesting to know more about that. As far as the compensation, I immagine the filing papers might tell us more than we know right now. Seems kind of early to conclude this is "bogus" unless you have more information.
»

I Believe

It's frivolous and bogus for the exact questions I asked.

Were any of them working and are now out of a job over this? Do any of them have lifetime disabilities now? Do they think a judgment of $2.6 million will make any emotional or mental stress just go away? What rights or inconveniences did they suffer to deserve $2.6 million each?  

They were told numerous times to obey the law, move, etc and ignored police orders knowing full good and well what ignoring those orders could mean.  They went prepared to be sprayed with pepper spray by bringing goggles and bandanas and some wore multiple layers to avoid being hurt by the rubber bullets.  That's premeditation. 

To monitarily reward them for their destructive behavior, ignoring the laws and OPD orders and their premeditation is wrong. 

I don't believe for one second that being given $10+ million dollars is going to change the ports mind, Bush's mind or anybody elses mind about the war. Neither do I believe paying them will end the war. 

The only message I see coming out of this should it go to trial and they win a judgment is it's OK to run rampant in the city, break the law, disobey police, risk lives and then scream brutality and get paid for it.

I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"

»

Thanks for sharing your opinion Onry

None of us are ignorant about each other's opinion of the port protesters or OPD. Nothing new there, eh? I'd love to hear any new info that relates to the facts surrounding this lawsuit though. I know that I am so ignorant at this point that my opinion is worthless. I'll let everyone else judge their own.
»

Is anyone any good at looking up court documents?

I am terrible at it. I had a lot of trouble looking up some of the docs relating to the woman who helped burn down the trees at UW. Maybe in another thread someone could give a kind of how to on finding relevant court docs. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

I Don't Know About Documents But

yesterday this website was posted in the comments section of one of the stories.  You can look up cases in WA State.

I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"

»

Premeditation?

So now wearing goggles is evidence of first degree ... what? First degree self-protection? Throw the book at 'em!
»

You've got me wondering, Onry

"There's more evidence of them breaking laws than them being brutalized."

Is there evidence of any of the plaintiffs breaking the law?

»

Hamilton was the only one

Hamilton was the only one arrested.
»

Thanks!

Good info.
»

Sure about that?

Your own link would seem to contradict your statement. This one, too.
»

You're right.  My

You're right.  My apologies.  I used Ctrl+F to search and didn't have her middle initial.  Daisy was also arrested.
»

I Digress

All I know is there was a list of 50+ people arrested throughout that ordeal.  Whether any of them were the plaintiff's or not, I don't know. 

I do believe laws were broken, property was damaged and innocent lives were risked.

I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"

»

List of those arrested at

List of those arrested at Olympia's Port Protest in Nov '08.  Unofficial.  You can issue a records request for an official list.
»

Thanks EG

Now this is what I'm talking about! Digging up some facts.
»

Daisy Montague

Proof of her breaking the law.
»

Daisy doesn't say anything

Daisy doesn't say anything in her article about being sprayed, gassed, shot or clubbed. In fact, she flat out says it didn't happen because news reporters were there. She merely mentions being arrested and detained until 4:00am.

Yet the Olympian article says she's suing because of the "brutality" she endured. What gives?

»

Good point Merwyn

I am guessing that the "brutality" claim is probably based on events other than the one she describes in that particular report. As I recall, the police acted great during the women's blockade...at least during the arrests I witnessed.
»

except...

for the concussion grenades and pot shots at peoples heads. i wouldn't call that acting great.
»

Perhaps you've noticed that

Perhaps you've noticed that people suing the police have avoided making public statements about their assaults. My guess is that this is on advice of counsel.
»

Sigh.....civil DISOBEDIENCE is "unlawful" by nature

Just as the blacks that sat at the lunch counter broke the law.  When will we get over this silly crap?

The inplication is that these four were responsible for property damage and "assault" on police officers.  Nothing is further from the truth.

Let's deal with truth and not hysteria, huh?

»

How hard have you looked? Its all out there, all you have to

do is look for it. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

I appreciate the additional info folks

Do you think that their arrests or criminal behavior will make the lawsuit invalid?
»

No, but I believe the burden

No, but I believe the burden of proof will be that much more difficult to prove.
»

There is a terrific open thread

to talk about good guys and bad guys. Let's focus folks.
»

Docents

would you please cut of comments on my thread. My faith was misplaced. We can take this to the venting thread. Pretty please.
»

Gug...

Last night, you had the audacity to reply "who cares?" to a blog from JustPlnOnry (and then have the cajones to say sarcasm isn't nice). Now you try to "cut of" (I'm assuming you mean "cut OFF") the comments on your thread because they're not going the way you want.

What's your deal, man? Just chill out and go with the flow. This isn't called GuglielmoBlog for pete's sake...

»

You might want to check out the PM I sent you earlier.

nt
»

C'mon Gug, just go with the burn

n/t
»

Funny, I sent it two minutes before you posted this.

nt
»

Maybe you creeped Marcie out

have to be careful with those pm's, y'know?
»

Hey, she's the one talking about my cajones...

I only PMed her to appologize for subjecting her to my "feud" with Onry. Anyway, if I'm serious about cutting this off, I better shut up.
»

Why Does There Even Need To Be A Feud?

I'm not feuding with you over remarks you've made in the past.  In fact, I asked point blank questions to you regarding your remarks to my posts and you're not man enough to even acknowledge them or realize how childish you're behaving. 

Why am I any different from anybody else you've apologized to for your bad behavior/remarks?  Why are others allowed to make negative remarks to you and you laugh it off but are hateful with me?

And some wonder why women won't post around here...  I don't think it's so much the gun talk as it is the disrespect for their opinions.

I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"

»

Oh Onry

I was simply reacting to your "Who Cares" post on one of my recent threads. It was spiteful of me and I apologize.
»

Thank You!

NOW can we move on and all be civil again without fear of feuding?

I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"

»

Oops..

Didn't mean to stir up the pot! Thanks for the pm, Gug.
»

Thanks for starting this thread Gug

keep us updated please.
»

Gandhi said it.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. 

My prediction, easy money, the City will have to settle or lose.  Civil rights were violated, that's a payday for attorneys that should cause the Police Chief to enjoy a suspension without pay or termination for cause at some point.    

»

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