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Submitted by Mike on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 8:27am.

Before everyone squares off and wants to knock the chip off my block I need to declare upfront that even content is a factor in this post, the real question that I am posing is about process, the rewriting, or de-writing of history.

So I have watched JT, Rick, Gug try to converse about JT's most recent post about the eco-warriors and the size of their carbon footprint.  I was staying out of it because I wanted to observe how Rick's conversation model worked.  But I decided last night that I would post a couple of questions for JT and others about this latest blog item.  Here are the questions I was planning to post:

JT, since you are rather firmly on the record that global warming is not anthropogenic, not primarily caused by the accumulation of greenhouse gases related to the burning of fossil fuels, why would it matter to you and why would you bother to post about the carbon footprint of Gore or anyone?  

If your position on global warming is intellectually honest, and you really believe that global warming is caused by things that are causing the ice caps on Mars to melt, what difference does it make how much fossil fuel or greenhouse gas is emitted or attributed to anyone?

If your argument and position regarding is intellectually honest why would you post this latest item?  

My sense on that is that your argument and position is primarily political and pragmatic, not scientific or intellectually honest.  

and that of course, leads to the question for Rick and others in the "conversation" camp: do you think a conversation is going to move or illuminate things for folks whose commitment is so brutally efficient, politically pragmatic, and bereft of consistency and intellectual honesty?

But I look around today and I see that JT's most recent post appears to have disappeared. This happened earlier with Olycop's bit of brilliant science tracking global warming to environmentalists and catalytic converters.  This bit of pragmatic, political quackery has disappeared and I think that is wrong. 

I believe the record here should be cached, with ability to be referenced. Once an item is posted and broadcast, I think an argument of intellectual property is out the window.  And the current model that apparently allows a person to delete items essentially changes the historical record.  I think that was one of Orwell's points, who controls the past, controls the future. 

Any thoughts about process?  

 

 

»

You're right.

It's gone. Not sure how or why. Here's the chached version, but it doesn't include Guglielmo's insightful analysis of that study.

I thought that thread was rather successful at revealing the motivations in posting such stuff, in addition to debunking the specific claims.


> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
»

I've asked the other docents...

...but I'm sure that they wouldn't do that without notifying the others. That leaves JT.


> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
»

Why is there even a delete option

especially once other's have contributed comments. It's theft.
»

I agree.

It's only been a problem once or twice.


> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
»

Yup I deleted it and nearly every other

post I have made.

A docent decided to delete one of my other posts and didn't even have the courtesy to tell me who did it or why. Rob R. is not the docent that deleted it as he told me via PM that he knew about it but couldn't or chose not to answer my questions about why it was deleted. Rob gave me a general reason, but no specifics.

So if a docent can delete my posts, certainly I can delete my own.

I deleted the stuff Mike references, but also my stuff that was not controversial, i.e. motorcycle stuff, car show stuff, etc. I only left the stuff that was in active debate, or at least the stuff I thought was in debate, and one post that was designed as a public announcement. It was only a reaction to the docents unilateral decision to remove something and having no courtesy to give notice (read hissy fit). If anyone should complain about theft, it should be me.

Mike I'm done debating this with you. Further it is likely that I'm done debating with you on any topic. Your style is a style I won't engage with. You have always had an attack and demean style. Over the last year you have mellowed but you still have the same problem.

“America passes the critical gate test. Open the gate and see where people go – in or out. This is still the country people flock to.” George Will

»

Let's talk about anti-social behavior.

Just to begin. Welcome back, John. It would have been nice to know that you are/were OlyCop when you signed up again, but you chose not to reveal that. I'm not sure why, though. When you left, we corresponded about what to do with your account, and I thought we found a good compromise (not deleting it). It sounds like you've changed your mind about that, and didn't have the courtesy to tell us. That is a serious breach of the social contract.

The reason that you don't know why your post was deleted is not because no one talked about it, but rather because the website is not updating its rss feeds very frequently -- something related to why the tracker wasn't working before. Rob sent out a notice on the docent email list suggesting that the "porn" video was inappropriate material for OlyBlog. I agreed with his assessment, and deleted it. Docents delete spam and hate from the site all the time (just a small part of what happens behind the scenes here that most folks never see). This was no different.

You deleted a post that contained important information that does not belong to you. Once you post it, and other people comment on it, it belongs to the community. Please don't delete any more posts, or I will recommend to the docents that you're account be blocked for anti-social behavior.


> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
»

Rick,

I will post about my return, etc. later. As far as not being forthcoming with that info, that also will be covered in the future post, but many here figured it out and PM'd me about that. They chose to not "out" me, at my request. Enpen effectively outed me yesterday, so I figured the entire community deserves an explaination. One thing that is important to understand is I didn't go to great lengths to hide my identity, using my initials as a screen name, and my first name in my personal section with a winky face in the surname section. After enpen outed me I figured I would post about my return in the near future.

As for deleting my posts, I understand your concern, and it makes sense. I won't do any more deleting, and the threat from you about deleting was unnecessary.

As to the nature of the porn post, I'm not so sure my post was much worse than some of what has been accepted here in posts by enpen. But it's your pond, you can make the rules as you see fit, and I can choose whether to play or not. So if you deleted my post, why no PM as to why etc.? If you had shown some courtesy in that regard, I wouldn't have gone on my deleting frenzy.

“America passes the critical gate test. Open the gate and see where people go – in or out. This is still the country people flock to.” George Will

»

Yeah

a PM is warranted. I agree.
»

Fair enough...

...I should have notified you about the deletion.

I just have to ask: do you see the contradiction contained in your post? "Don't threaten me, but if you don't treat me right, I'll delete all my posts?" You're already making me crazy!


> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
»

Give us an update on your bike project

when you have a few minutes

 

»

This form of vandalism needs fixing

Docents? Why are folks allowed to delete entire threads? They may "own" the original post, but certainly not the comments.
»

I don't see a way...

...to prevent it. If the blog function is on, it includes the ability to delete. You'd think that folks could just act responsibly...


> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
»

yeah

I think it's a function of being able to edit one's own blog. That seems like a lame thing to not allow users the ability to do.

»

Agreed. People hsould be allowed to edit.

God knows I need that function. I guess we're on the honor system here. I'd hope that means not unilaterally deleting posts even though it's within one's power to do so.
»

It really should have been

It really should have been clearly stated that it was such a faux pas to delete entries from ones blog.  I do it from time to time.  It's like "spring cleaning" and I feel better tidying up.  I have a 'daily life' blog that I have kept up for many years now and do the same thing there...none of my subscribers/friends have ever complained when I privatize old entries nor do I when they do the same thing.  These sorts of rules should really be more clear.

Music is the mediator between the spiritual and the sensual life. ~Ludwig van Beethoven

»

I'm not adverse to people exercising good judgement here

If I started a thread and someone added a comment that appears to have taken a good investment of time and hard thought, I might ask them how they feel before deleting it. I don't know. Perhaps I'm all wet here...again.
»

I can see your point. 

I can see your point.  Maybe I'm just mean. 

Music is the mediator between the spiritual and the sensual life. ~Ludwig van Beethoven

»

Nah. Maybe you just know your audience

well enough to make good decisions.
»

Shhhh

they are afraid of her and her powerful, and violent, skills. Don't mention it around town though....I'd hate to have to go to your funeral.
»

Yes, a mere flexing of

Yes, a mere flexing of my bulging well oiled muscles sends people into fits of screaming and convulsions.  It's a gift. 

Music is the mediator between the spiritual and the sensual life. ~Ludwig van Beethoven

»

Oh my.....I've been fooled!

JT:

How was my presentation?  It was interesting to meet you face to face, even though we didn't speak.

»

I should have recognized the style and content

but for some reason it did not occur to me that JT and Olycop are one and the same.  Welcome back, JTOC.
»

Considering the flack he got for sharing his opinions

...while holding that username, maybe now would be a good time to let the issue rest and stick with just JT. Anyone else agree here?
»

If his Momma named him Clay, I call him Clay

Pick the movie that line came from, and I'm buying the beverage at the Broho.

»

I'm Gonna Guess It Was

Coming To America!

Make mine a Captain Morgan with a splash of coke, tall, no lime please! 

I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"

»

Onry Wins!!!

A cheap date with Larry....one drink.

»

Can We Nuzzle???

*wink* 

I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"

»

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