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Submitted by Sarah on Fri, 05/18/2007 - 11:09am.
Falwell died. As I did my usual survey of local blogs I noticed that community response was being expressed quickly and I posted about this fact in Blog Local on R.I.P. Jerry Falwell . I purposefully did not enable comments because I wanted readers to go to blogs listed and converse there. My post got picked up by PNW Topic Hotlist and at the moment is #1 on their Hot Top 10. Also southsounder on the conservative action site townhall.com has posted Rejoicing death. Their link to my original post is captioned "quick to rejoice and display their hate". I myself have commented there with another view. I find all this fascinating. So this is a comments enabled post. Have at it, nicely. No name calling of your fellow bloggers allowed. I don't have any brilliant questions to get the ball rolling, do you?
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Blog Local |
Why?
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 05/18/2007 - 3:43pm.Puzzle
Submitted by Sarah on Sat, 05/19/2007 - 7:17am.I suppose we fellow human beings are always going to be a puzzle to each other, especially in terms of how we think about important matters. I like the fact that we can choose to peacefully agree to disagree.
I keep thinking of the word used on that conservative site: "Falwellian". I don't agree with how it was applied but I gotta admit I like the word itself.
I'll take a crack at rejoicing at someone's death
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Fri, 05/18/2007 - 7:46pm.Death is one of those things that we all will share, sooner or later. In some ways death actually defines life because life is that thing that occurs after birth and before death. Without death we can't have a life because it would no longer fit the definition of what is life. Some might say "what about eternal life, got you there". But eternal life would amount to the same thing as eternal death, except death is eternal and therefore eternal death is redundant. An eternal life would be as meaningless as death except it would seem to be longer than death because you would have a living perspective of eternity. Life, because of its limited nature is what makes is special. The uncertainity of life should makes it all the more precious.
If you are still following me, which is usually a mistake, the celebration or rejoicing in death is actually the celebration of a life completed or better yet, celebrating a life in its absolute. Some lives are lived in more worthy ways than others, I will grant you that But they are only lives perfected when the person dies.
There is this old joke about Hitler. Hitler goes to an astrologer, apparently Hitler had some beliefs in the supernatural, and asks the astrologer when will he die. The astrologer consults his charts and tells Hitler that he will die on a Jewish holiday. Hitler exclaims that the Jews have so many holidays, which holiday will it be? The astrologer says he's not certain which holidiay it will be but is certain it will be a holiday for the Jews when he dies.
I know there is some sensitivity about the death of Pastor Falwell. He did have a somewhat controversial life and set of beliefs. Some are greatly saddened by his death, some are rejoicing. No one can argue that he didn't live and he didn't have an impact. To be happy in a death really is meaningless, it is what we do before death that is important. Making note of a person's death, positive or negative only establishes the person lived and nothing more.
Some might say that I have no respect for the dead and they would be correct. All my respect is for the living and my greatest hope is they do well by this life that they have because it is precious and only meaningful until death comes. For the record, Jerry Falwell was a bag of slime in life and death did nothing to change that. Death changes nothing, only life can create change.
"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
"Only life can create change"
Submitted by Sarah on Sat, 05/19/2007 - 7:22am.Well said.
^@^
I.C.W.T
(In Caimans We Trust)
Actually, eternal life on earth wouldn't be so bad
Submitted by Summerisle on Sat, 05/19/2007 - 9:15pm.uhm..eh-he..
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Fri, 05/18/2007 - 8:23pm.he said "douche bag". (in my best Bevis impersonation)
"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
You have to admit Crenshaw
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 05/21/2007 - 12:48pm.Hate becomes the common denominator
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sat, 05/19/2007 - 6:46pm.In the Course of Events
you all grieve a death in your own way
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Sun, 05/20/2007 - 10:10pm.In the case of Jerry Falwell my grief is for the suffering he caused during his life. I refused to be told by the right how I choose to grieve. The right pulled that crap with the death of Paul Wellstone. I think that rejoicing is always appropriate when suffering is eliminated. To the bitter end Falwell did nothing but to contribute to the suffering in this world. I'm not happy he is dead, I am happy that he no longer contributes to the suffering in this world.
"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
Rob,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 05/23/2007 - 10:57am.Cousin Pat
Submitted by stevenl on Mon, 05/21/2007 - 4:53am.With all this fuss about the death of Jerry Foulball and the ethics of grave-dancing, my thoughts turned to the Tweedle-dum to his Tweedle-dee, Pat Robertson. Although James Dobson seems more than willing to fill the void as America's Number One Jerk, he still has a lot of work to do before catching up to Cousin Pat. So, while Pat is still among the living, let me get my two-cents worth in now, before the evangelicals accuse me of bad taste after Pat croaks and gets spanked hard by Jesus for being such a crook and hustler.
I don't need to go into why Cousin Pat is a Jerk. We all know why. Instead I will relate a little bit of trivia of how he changed Washington State history.
Back in the old days, we didn't have presidential primaries. We had a caucus system. That meant we all gathered with people in our precinct, Republicans or Democrats, and elected delegates to the county convention, which in turn elected delegates to the state convention, which in turn elected delegates to the national convention. I attended my caucus meetings in 1976, 1984, and 1988 (in 1980 I voted 3rd party). I was even a precinct committeeman in 1974, a good party boy. Man, that was a long time ago. One guy who really impressed me in those party meetings is now the State Insurance Commissioner, and he still impresses me as a great public servant. I'm an independent now. But anyway.
All three of the caucus meetings I attended were in private living rooms. In 1976, in Olympia, I was for Fred Harris in a room full of Scoop Jackson folks. In 1984 I was in a crowded and two-fisted caucus in Pullman. I went for George McGovern, who was making one last try and dropped out that very evening. I really know how to pick them. In 1988 in McCleary I was undecided and went to the county convention. Since only 3 of us showed up at the caucus, all 3 of us got to go.
Now out here in Grays Harbor County there is only one party, the Democrats. McGovern in 1972 and Carter in 1980 took our county. No Republican has won a county office here in my lifetime. As a result, the Democrats out here are smug good old boys with reptilian ethics and I have started voting Republican in local elections as a form of protest. The 1988 Grays Harbor County Democratic Party convention was as anti-environmentalist and reactionary as any Republican gathering. But, just down the hill ...
... Was the 1988 Grays Harbor Republican Party convention. I had accidentally walked into that gathering and by the way people were dressed and carrying themselves, I thought I was attending a church service. "Oh no, the Democrats are up there," a polite person pointed up the hill. And up there I saw a guy in dirty overalls wiping his nose with his sleeve, so I knew where to go.
Here's what happened, Pat Robertson ran for president in 1988. Yes, he ran for President of the United States. Can you believe it? And his people, through the caucus system, took over the Washington State Republican Party. The party of Dan Evans, one of the most progressive governors in the history of the Pacific Northwest. In fact, the largest single block of Pat Robertson delegates to the 1988 Republican convention came from Washington State. And to this day the Washington Republicans have this split personality between good and evil.
Needless to say, the caucus system lost some popular appeal among Republican political pros after 1988.
So, the Cousin Pat part. I have researched a bit into the genealogy of my family and discovered we are distant cousins with Thomas Jefferson and Ralph Waldo Emerson, and probably Richard Nixon, and probably ... yes, Pat Robertson.
The Robertson connection is circumstantial but probable. I wrote to him about ten years ago and inquired about his family history and specifically about our connection. I made it quite clear I was not at all interested in his other activities as a fundamentalcase money-raiser. As a result of my query I was greeted with a barrage of junk mail from the 700 Club. Then, finally, I got a personal and gracious letter from Pat himself. His information convinced me we were, in fact, distant cousins. Then about a month later I got a call from a Southern belle in Virginia Beach, "Will you please hold for a personal call from the Rev. Pat Robertson?" I was amazed. Wow, he was calling me with more info.
Then his voice came on the phone. It was pre-recorded message, "Mah friends, the end times are a-comin' and we need your financial support more than ever ..." or something along those lines. I quietly hung up the phone before I got the follow up pitch.
Now the family Cousin Pat and I have in common is filled with non-believers. And criminals. Bootleggers, counterfeiters, black marketers, murderers, and contrarians. So in the mid-1990s, when it was revealed Robertson's "Operation Blessing" humanitarian flights to Africa were actually a cover for his diamond mining operations-- we in my family all looked at each other and knew Cousin Pat had to be related. It was in the genes.
All of these labels
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 05/21/2007 - 12:45pm....does anyone else think that they are unhealthy to the conversation?
Considering I was the first person to respond, would you consider me to be "the right"? I am certainly right-handed, but beyond my beliefs about owning firearms I fail to see how I can be labelled this way. Possibly I need to protest more and/or paint more things on my body. Janet did offer to paint a uterus for me.
Evangelical? Here's a definition:
So, in order for me to not want to dance on someone's grave, whatever you wish to call it, it must be the evangelical side coming out? All the name calling is a little old guys.
D'oh!
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 05/21/2007 - 12:46pm.Bravo Normy
Submitted by OlyCop on Mon, 05/21/2007 - 1:52pm.a lot of time was expended getting all that info out.
"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle." dc talk
»I believe that Falwell's version of Christianity is what some
Submitted by Summerisle on Mon, 05/21/2007 - 3:46pm.The Theologian Paul Tillich, who was a liberal Protestant whose ideas find resonance in the liberal section of the Protestant denominations, once said in response to all of this, and I'll have to paraphrase, "They believe in the bible literally? Have they ever tried to translate one verse from Greek?". Well said.