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Submitted by Matt on Thu, 12/18/2008 - 8:14pm.
Hello, My name is Matthew Litwin. I was, until recently, a Planning Commissioner for the City of Olympia. I was appointed in the Spring of 2007 and resigned a few weeks ago. I’ve not previously been a contributor to OlyBlog, but several friends recently called to my attention that I was being discussed in a negative light on this website, and I wanted to directly address some of the accusations that have been made against me by member JLW and, to a lesser extent others. As far as I know, I’ve never met JLW and have never spoken with her one-on-one. Before I submitted this posting, I attempted to reach her by phone to be able to better understand and perhaps address her concerns with me and my actions as a former planning commissioner. I was unable to reach her (no answer at the phone number that is publicly listed for her; I called three times) and have not been able to find a personal email address for her, either. In the interests of addressing false accusations made in this public forum by Ms. Blanding in a timely manner, I have chosen to post a response for both her and the community at large to read. If anyone has any questions for me, please feel free to post them here as a response, I will answer clearly and honestly to all fair questions. I. The claim: I berated and browbeat Karen Messmer for “something that was well beyond her control” and I have “taken to task pleasant, law-abiding community members because vandals and pranksters in the community…take the same position on the rezone as they do.” The facts: I sent Karen Messmer an email on Friday, December 12, 2008. I sent it to her at her City of Olympia email address and thus it’s is a matter of public record. The letter, which I have pasted below in its entirety, followed a very brief private conversation I had with her during the intermission of the preceding Council Meeting that was much briefer, but substantially similar in content. I heard nothing back from Council Member Messmer and after several days, I forwarded the email to her colleagues on the City Council and the City Manager. That message, too, is public record and my introduction was brief and simply stated that “I think it's in the best interest of all concerned for my thoughts to be shared with the key decision makers in our city government so as to provide the maximum encouragement for our elected leaders to take unambiguously strong leadership in combating the tide of violence and intimidation that seems to be encroaching on Olympia.” On the same day, I sent a private email to several leaders in the community who head up or otherwise are deeply involved in organizing against the proposed rezone and/or for a park initiative. This email included a longer introduction to a copy of the letter to Council Member Messmer, and I have copied it below in its entirety, as well. It isn’t in the public record, but I surmise that JLW has read it and I, again, want readers to draw their own conclusions after reading all of it, not just a sentence or two. My thoughts: I hope that visitors to this website spend the time to read my letter to Council Member Messmer as well as the introduction to the community leaders and draw their own conclusions. For those who don’t want to go through both I’ll point out my sentence to Council Member Messmer that read, “Let me be clear, though, lest you come away with the impression that I believe you or other leaders in the anti-rezone movement directed the self-styled “anarchists” to destroy more property on Thursday night. I don’t.” In my letter to the community leaders I wrote “I don't think any of you or those who count themselves amongst your closest and publicly-active supporters have been directly responsible for the violence or intimidation in our community. It strikes me that you're all savvy enough to know that it's probably counterproductive in the long run. I don't think you directed the self-styled "anarchists" to do what they've done, either.” My letters communicate one central point that I continue to believe is right and fair: leaders who represent the viewpoints of those who oppose the rezone and/or want a park instead of a higher building have a responsibility to the community at large to take strong and aggressive steps to counter the damaging and sometimes illegal actions of those who agree with their point of view. Very recently this week, there have been some good steps in this direction, and I’m grateful for that. But there’s more yet that can and ought to be done and both of my letters offered additional suggestions that preceded this week’s positive developments. II. The claim: I used my position on the Olympian’s Editorial Board to promote my positions on land-use issues and that “quite a few pro-rezone editorials appeared in the “O” (The Olympian) while I was there. Further, I “proposed an editorial that other planning commissioners felt would be inappropriate” for me to be involved in. The facts: I was appointed to the Olympian’s Editorial Board as one of two community representative on January 10, 2008 and served until June 15, 2008. While I was on the Editorial Board, the Olympian’s editorial page editor penned the following pieces that touched on the Isthmus issue: i. “ Height-limit proposal is a test of council,” January 20, 2008 ii. “Grassroots group touts downtown’s potential,” April 6, 2008 iii. “End the blight, approve the height,” June 15, 2008 This is the way the Community Representative position works at the Olympian: first, a meeting is held with members of the community, elected leaders, etc. who present an issue for the Editorial Board to consider. Those in attendance at the Board usually include the paper’s publisher, the editor-in-chief, the editorial page editor and the two community reps. Following the presentation and Q&A with the presenters, the Board meets by itself to discuss the position the paper will take on its editorial page. It’s critical to understand that the community reps don’t write editorials or even set the editorial agenda (and we have no input on anything once our six month stint is finished). We offer feedback to the editor of the editorial page by way of exchanging emails ahead of publication. Sometimes the editor takes our suggestions, sometimes not. With regard to my participation in each of the aforementioned editorials, in order:i. I participated in the discussion and made the statement in our meeting that height, itself, is not inherently bad (in general, not on the Isthmus or anyone else in particular) and contributed my point of view that the City Council ought to create a review process, facilitated by outside professionals, to foster a broad community dialogue to achieve the best possible result. I was grateful that both of those sentiments were included by the editorial page editor. I stand firmly by both of those points of view and do not view them in any way as being incompatible with my position on the Planning Commission. I made it clear in the meeting that I had not come close to evaluating the extensive testimony and facts necessary to reach a conclusion about whether this particular comp plan amendment merited a recommendation. ii. I listened to the presentation by two leaders from the Oly2012, Jackie Barrett Sharar and Enid Layes, and participated in the discussion that followed. Before the meeting began, I told the other members of the Olympian’s Editorial Board that, from October 2007 until February 2008, I had attended some of this group’s meetings. During that period, Oly2012 was focused exclusively on providing broad-based community support for thoughtful downtown development with the aid of outside professionals (matching the comments I contributed to the first editorial mentioned above). Leaders of a different downtown redevelopment group that ultimately came to argue strongly against the rezone were also involved in Oly2012 during that initial phase. Around the end of February, Oly2012 decided to change their strategy by working to take pro/con stands on various specific development-related questions. I felt that this was completely inappropriate for me, since making recommendations about anything development related (Isthmus or otherwise) would have been a direct conflict of interest with my responsibilities on the Planning Commission. I resigned from the group immediately, and, further, reached out to several City Council members whom I had previously met with regarding the group and its initial intentions and let them know that I was no longer involved, and why. When Oly2012 presented to the Editorial Board, they were asked questions about their intentions regarding the Isthmus by editors from the paper (not me and not the other community rep) and the Oly2012 leaders responded that they had not yet taken a stand on it. This was a credible response from my point of view, as up until I left the group, it wasn’t even on the radar screen as far as I knew. They subsequently put out an issue paper on the topic that supported raising heights along with acquiring and demolishing the Capital Center, but that was not until almost two months after the Olympian’s editorial ran. In any case, my response to the presentation was that I supported the creation of a group that would “do a great deal of research, educate the public on their findings, motivate people to get involved and show them how to do just that.” That is verbatim from the editorial, and I continue to believe that the existence of groups that base their participation in the public process on facts, sound reasoning and good judgment is desirable, regardless of what conclusions they come to. That sentiment isn’t one that in any way interfered with my duties and responsibilities as Planning Commission member. The editorial in question, like the presentation and discussion that preceded it, didn’t have to do with my (or anyone’s) land-use opinions, it had to do with recognizing the merit of a group that came together to argue for good decision-making with regard to land-use issues. iii. I completely recused myself from the presentation by Oly2012 that preceded the June 15 editorial as well as the discussion that followed and the drafting of the editorial itself. The editorial page editor did not send me a copy of the editorial ahead of time for my comments. I made it completely clear to the Planning Commission (on June 2, 2008, see http://www.ci.olympia.wa.us/documents/OlympiaPlanningCommission/060208/060208Final.pdf) and then again to the public at the June 24, 2008 (see http://www.ci.olympia.wa.us/documents/OlympiaPlanningCommission/062408/062408Final.pdf) hearing that I was in no way involved in the deliberation or writing of the editorial. I further disclosed to the Planning Commission that I had attended Oly2012 meetings before they became involved in the Isthmus issue (see June 16, 2008 meeting minutes at http://www.ci.olympia.wa.us/documents/OlympiaPlanningCommission/061608/061608Final.pdf, which were amended and approved at http://www.ci.olympia.wa.us/documents/OlympiaPlanningCommission/070708/070708FinalVerbatim.pdf ). Here is the exact text of an email I wrote to the Olympian’s editorial page editor on June 2, 2008 (before any of the meetings or the editorial; my first sentence is in response to a reminder to attend a meeting on the following day): ----------------------------- Re: Remember we have Steve Reynolds from Puget Sound Energy at 2 p.m. tomorrow (Tuesday, 6-2). Mike O Monday, June 2, 2008 9:33 PM From: "Matthew Litwin" <mlitwin10@yahoo.com> To: "Oakland, Mike" <MOakland@theolympian.com> Mike, I'll be there. There was some discussion tonight at the Planning Commission about my role on the Ed Board during times when the board may be considering/meeting with those who have a vested interest in the outcome of the CPAs, especially (not surprisingly) the isthmus issue. There's two things they asked me to do: 1) recuse myself from any meetings where these issues might be discussed and 2) ask you to (very briefly) mention in print that I recused myself in any editorial you end up printing while I'm on the board (or shortly after I leave) about the issue. The only meeting/piece I can think of that will overlap is with the Olympia 2012 group, but if anything else comes up in the next few weeks, or if you and the other editors end up deciding to put out a piece on the height issue itself, I'd really appreciate if you could help me out on these requests. FYI, there's so much concern about the isthmus issue that they asked me to mention that I am/was on the board but that I haven't been involved in any pieces on the height issue at the 6/24 hearing. Oh, the drama. Thanks very much, Matt ------------------------------ [Just to clarify…the 2012 reference was to a second visit to the Olympian by leaders of that group after they published their pro-rezone opinion. Anyone who wants me to forward them the email so that there’s no question about its authenticity, just contact me and I’ll be happy to do so.] Here’s the editor’s response: ------------------------------ Oakland, Mike <MOakland@theolympian.com> Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 4:04 PM To: Matthew Litwin <mlitwin10@gmail.com> You didn’t get a long editorial today because it’s the isthmus edit that runs on Sunday. This is the note I put at the end. Does it meet your needs? (Editor’s note: Matthew Litwin, a community representative on The Olympian’s editorial board and a member of the Olympia Planning Commission, recused himself from the editorial board’s discussion on this issue and the drafting of this editorial.) ------------------------------ Regarding the separate accusation that I was pushing for an “inappropriate” editorial, I believe JLW is not aware of either the public record (see above for link to June 2, 2008 meeting) nor what the Olympian actually published or when. At the Planning Commission meeting on June 20, 2008 (prior to the the public hearing held regarding the Isthmus rezone) I disclosed to the Commission several facts: 1) that I was on the Editorial Board; 2) that the Board was considering writing a piece regarding what makes for good and useful testimony (regardless of pro or con) and 3) as a Community Representative for The Olympian, I was by definition playing a role in the discussions related to whether such an editorial would be a good idea. I disclosed this in an effort to solicit feedback from my fellow Planning Commissioners. The City’s staff representative and several Planning Commissioners voiced their concern that anything the Olympian wrote that even tangentially was related to the Isthmus could be misread, and I agreed—I felt like they made a good point that it was better to err on the side of great caution. As a result, the Olympian never published an essay with their recommendations for “helpful” input until well after I was off the Editorial Board and well after the Planning Commission concluded its own public hearing and recommendation process. That editorial, “Don’t repeat points at land use hearing,” ran on August 12, 2008 ahead of the City Council’s meeting. As a citizen, I thought that editorial was a good one, but it had nothing to do with my opinions on land-use planning. What’s more I explicitly asked the Planning Commission if they were satisfied with my disclosures and there was unanimous agreement to that effect. Lastly, and unrelated, I want to volunteer another exchange that JLW didn’t mention. Before the beginning of the Planning Commission’s June 2, 2008 meeting, I was approached by an attorney involved with another (non-Isthmus) related rezone. He told me that he worked for a firm that I had done a small amount of business with, and wanted to see if he could speak with me about some of the testimony. I felt it would be better for all involved if his testimony, feedback and/or questions were heard by the Commission as a whole and told him so. I then disclosed this to the Commission at the beginning of the meeting and asked the attorney to communicate with us as a group and not with me directly. This is on the record. I mention this because I think it lends credence that I’m careful to follow the law and not even give the appearance of impropriety. I took my responsibility on the Planning Commission seriously. To sum up, I tried to go to the maximum lengths possible to make it clear to everyone that I was doing the right things, in the right way, by separating my responsibilities as a Planning Commission member from my responsibilities as a Community Representative at the Olympian. I hope the facts leave little room for the damaging and false accusations leveled by JLW on this front. III. The claim: I was domineering and didn’t allow my fellow Planning Commissioners to get a word in edgewise at our hearing. The facts: The Planning Commission’s deliberation on the Isthmus rezone was held on July 21, 2008. Commission Chair Amy Tousley led the meeting in a clear and decisive fashion. She asked each Planning Commissioner to speak to their opinion regarding the rezone proposal ahead of any motion being made. Commissioners Retlin, Reddick, Law, Taylor, and Leveen preceded me. After me were Commissioners Boyde, Horn, Wilson, and Chairwoman Tousley. No one—not me or anyone else—interrupted anyone who came before me or after me. No one caused anyone to abbreviate their comments in any way. This is clear from the record (http://www.ci.olympia.wa.us/documents/OlympiaPlanningCommission/072108/072108FinalVerbatim.pdf). I spoke longer than most other Commissioners (though Chair Tousley spoke for a good while, as well). If Ms. Blanding is confusing my lack of brevity for being domineering, I hope the record will speak for itself; I took a lot of time to explain why I was voting as I was, by analyzing all of the major pro and con arguments related to the rezone. Much of the latter part of the meeting consisted of the Commissioners asking each other questions and responding to the responses. I took particular care to ask Roger Horn, who’s a very long-time resident (and multiple –term Planning Commissioner) his thoughts about why he opposed the rezone. I value greatly his opinion and learned a lot from him on the Commission. This is what I said to him the discussion phase: “I’ve got two questions; I’d like to ask Commissioner [Roger] Horn and Commissioner Boyde some questions. I’ll start with you Roger. I guess I preface it by saying, you know, how much, how high a regard I hold your opinion in general and then specifically I think you’re very good at thinking through the 50 year issue.” And then I go on to ask whether the Staff’s recommendation that the height extensions be limited is, in his mind, a sufficient mitigation to the view impacts. He explains to me that any impact to the view at all is too much of a problem. The record shows that my response is “OK” but I think Roger (or anyone else there that night) would be the first to tell you that I listened respectfully to him and thought a great deal (and talked even more!) about how I recognized that his argument was a good and valid one that deserved a lot of consideration. My thoughts: The bottom line for me is that I can understand why JLW or others might be disappointed with my decision or even that I took a tough, but I think very fair and publicly well-thought-out, line of reasoning to get to my decision. But there’s a big difference between sharing ones thoughts (maybe at too great length!) and being domineering or bullying others. What’s more, I don’t regret stating that I felt like some (but not all) of the arguments made against the rezone were intellectually bankrupt—I took a lot of time (perhaps too much) to explain why I thought each of the primary pro and con arguments held weight for me and helped me reach a final decision. I can understand that that term or others troubled JLW, but I hope she and others can divorce their consternation over language with the idea that I somehow didn’t give proper consideration to all arguments—good or bad—or that I prevented my fellow Commissioner’s from speaking their minds. IV. The claim: You “have to wonder” about “people who push so hard to change a place they’re leaving.” The facts and my thoughts: Regarding my move to Portland: it’s a personal matter related to me and my family. It’s something that came up quickly, well after the Isthmus issue was anywhere near the Planning Commission. It wasn’t something I could have foreseen, and frankly, it’s something that I’m doing with quite a lot of melancholy. I love Olympia, and came here with my family by choice and with an eye towards building a life in a place where it’s a joy to live and work. I’ve started a business here, been raising my family here and made many close friends here. I’m proud of the work I’ve done and the life I’ve led in Olympia—not just on the Planning Commission, but as a member of Olympia’s Rotary, as a member of my synagogue, as a new dad, and as a husband and friend. I intend to keep a very close relationship with all of my personal and professional friends here and am looking forward to sticking with what I see as great business opportunities here over the long haul. I wish JLW had taken the time to reach out to me directly with her concerns and accusations. She and I may never see eye-to-eye on the Isthmus issue, and she may not even like me or how I discharged my responsibilities on the Planning Commission, but I’m really perplexed by the intensity of her unrelenting public attacks, both online and off. To the extent that any OlyBlog readers know some of the Planning Commissioners, especially the ones I didn’t vote with on the Isthmus issue (Larry Leveen, James Reddick or Roger Horn), I’d ask you to reach out to them and ask them for their opinions of me and how I handled my role on the Commission in general and particularly with regard to the Isthmus. When I resigned, I heard some of the nicest compliments I’ve ever received from some of the people I disagreed with most sincerely (on the Isthmus and otherwise). I wish all members of our community could be as graceful. --------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Council Member Messmer, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear [deleted names to respect privacy of the recipients],
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Isthmus |
OlyBlog is a site for news and discussion about Olympia, Washington.
Thanks for your
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 12/18/2008 - 10:11pm.Wow...
Submitted by samdunkirk on Thu, 12/18/2008 - 10:07pm.Still got that DSM-IV, Sam?
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 5:03pm."Unrelenting"?
Submitted by jlw on Thu, 12/18/2008 - 10:14pm.The volume of phone calls
Submitted by Matt on Thu, 12/18/2008 - 10:32pm.The volume of phone calls that I've received at my home from folks who have been hearing your comments about me around town and in various meetings is less than 3000, but it's a lot. Some of those folks are business acquantainces of mine who asked me to address accusations very similar to the ones you posted here on OlyBlog.
Your "mention" of me in the most recent thread ran the gamut from insulting a personal, family issue (our move) to first insinuating and then explicitly accusing me of breaching the public trust while I was a Planning Commissioner. Goodness knows what else you've been up to.
I think you're being quite the bully. I spent a lot of time crafting a fact-filled response that challenged every one of the spurious claims that you and others have made. I thought there was a marginal chance you might send me a private message (and figured a nil chance of a public post) saying something to the effect of, "hey, sorry about the rough words, thanks for clarifying...still think you're wrong on the Isthmus, but I'll back off on the public slander."
I guess no such luck.
Sorry, but that's unconvincing
Submitted by jlw on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 6:10am.I'm not so much impressed with your excuses, Matt.
Submitted by Sandy M on Thu, 12/18/2008 - 11:11pm.It is simply unconscionable to excoriate Councilmember Karen Messmer, along with members of the grassroots anti-rezone groups, by implying that they bear any accountability whatsoever for the vandalism that was done in response to the rezone.
As well, regardless of your reasons, it is inexcusable to openly denounce opponents of the rezone -- stalwart members of this community -- as "naysayers" or "intellectually bankrupt" during a public process in which you are responsible for a decision that is supposed to represent the interests of those people.
It's disappointing that, rather than apologize, you continue to defend these actions.
Didn't hear or read him call
Submitted by samdunkirk on Thu, 12/18/2008 - 11:35pm.You are correct
Submitted by Sandy M on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 12:13am.that he used the expression "intellectually bankrupt" in reference to the arguments, not the people. And I wasn't there to witness for myself how that went down, so I will back down on that issue.
But I strongly encourage people to read the full text of the letters Matt sent to Councilmember Karen Messmer and the members of the rezone opposition, accusing them of culpability for the vandalism. It's truly egregious.
Judge for yourselves.
Welcome to OlyBlog
Submitted by Berd on Thu, 12/18/2008 - 11:31pm.I haven't read your articles here yet. But I hope to do so. In peace, Berd
I too appreciate this post but....
Submitted by Laurian on Thu, 12/18/2008 - 11:43pm.The problem is not who said what to whom when. The problem is how to get both sides to back the fuck down and at least try to play nice. Mr. Litwin's sharp words have been used by the Defenders of the Down trodden and the Sacred to whip up the latest outrage over the tactics of the forces of Evil. In a strange synthesis (Lenin would LOVE this) both sides are in some degree responsible for our merry band of anarchists acting out.
Did Janet B. take Mr. Litwin's words out of context or purposely mis-represented them to score political points with the already converted? Yeah, I think so. Did Mr. Litwin make links between the above ground anti-rezone activists and vandals to score point with his group of evangelicals? Yep again, but to both sides I say: take that shit outside!
I find this inside politics gossip way juicy but it is the kind of gossip best left to giggle and sneer at in a bar, not in public and not in front of the other side. As much fun as this kind of back and forth is, it is irrelevant. It is so much sound and fury signifying nada.
There is something more important than being right and that is being effective. As Janet, Sandy, Matt and Peter parse sentences, fling erudite barbs and play games of gotcha, they unintentionally broaden the rift in our community over land use and economic development issues. To read the rhetoric flying back and forth you might think regardless of which faction triumphs in the end, a crack in the earth will open up and swallow Olympia whole. That ain't gonna happen and we all know it. This flap is about condos for the rich, not the fate of the world. It's about land use, not Revolution. Built or not, downtown Olympia will survive Larida Passage. It too will survive the factionalism but at what cost.
Mr. Litwin, Ms. Blanding: you are right. So what.
I beg to differ, Laurian.
Submitted by Sandy M on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 12:03am.Land use disputes are often revolutionary. And this one is huge ... the change it will create in the landscape of our town, our home, is colossal.
You're allowed to think it's not that important if you choose, but it obviously means a great deal to a huge swath of this community. I've lived here for 25 years. Please don't belittle my feelings about this.
"Purposely misrepresented" [Mr. Litwin's words]
Submitted by jlw on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 6:02am.Sandy and jlw
Submitted by Laurian on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 11:52am.jlw: I retract the word purposeful. It is an inaccurate description of your intent. My bad.
Sandy: I was not my intention to belittle anyone. I apologize. Land use is important. That's why all of us are so engaged in this issue. I used Revolutionary in the propagandist meaning of the word.
May is suggest land use is not revolutionary but rather evolutionary in that it is a slower, non-violent but profoundly reshaping process with often unforeseen consequences.
You did it...
Submitted by Matt on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 8:26am.when you made a number of other accusations, including that I prevented others from speaking at the public hearing; that I abused my position at the Olympian Editorial Board to promote my position on land use issues while I was on the Planning Commission" and when you claimed that I wasn't committed to the city and was "just playing a game" since I'm moving from Olympia (a personal matter that has nothing to do with any of this).
I then spent a lot of time documenting how the first two accusations are demonstrably false. I won't bother trying to wring additional apologies out of you. I have the confidence that anyone who wants to wade through the actual facts that I presented will see your accusations for what they are: junk.
As for the third, I guess there's no way to prove what my commitment level is by way of emails or transcripts. To the extent anyone cares, they can talk to anyone I've done business with, worked with on the Planning Commission, or volunteered with in other capacities here. I guess we all come from someplace, and end up someplace else. I hope you can leave a constructive contribution to this community after I leave, as you seem to be interested in tearing down while I'm here.
Incidentally, if there's two sentences in my letter to the leaders who you (maybe?) respect that best sums up my motivations and purpose, it's these:
"I believe each of you ought to take some degree of responsibility on a personal- and group-level for the corrosive and hateful direction this debate has taken, and we should all seek to work together to tamp it down and show that tough policy decisions don't need to lead to any kind of violence."
and
"I hope some of you step up soon and want you to know that if you do, I'll be just as soon to praise you and your efforts despite our clear policy differences."
So, I know that there are plenty of people out there who are fair and thoughtful and who disagree strongly with me about the rezone. Some of those (and others) will also disagree about why I asked various leaders to take a much more pro-active role in helping to combat the corrosiveness that's come out of this process. On that front, I agree with Laurian--I really didn't want this to become something that was hashed out online. My emails to the leaders were private, and while I'm not suprised that someone shared it with you, I guess I'm disappointed that you just saw it as more fodder for the fire.
Here's the truth: I'm proud of the work I did, and the decisions we came to on the Planning Commission. Not just on the Isthmus, but on nearly everything we worked on over the last two years, which ran the gamut from debating changes to the historical preservation code to considering the City's comprehensive financial plans. I am not proud of how angry and hate-filled this debate has become and have been pushing hard for those who are in public leadership positions, people who presumably you might take some guidance from, to help change the tone. It's clear that an appeal for such from me, or others who have been much more viciously attacked, like Council Member Kingsbury isn't going to get very far.
Just out of curiosity...
Submitted by jlw on Sat, 12/20/2008 - 10:29am.I do not believe it is fair
Submitted by zeet on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 9:01am.He's not blaming
Submitted by Peter Alden Stroble on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 9:38am.He's not blaming anyone but the perpetrators, but he is asking for the opposition leaders to take some proactive responsibility. There is a difference.
I have read the letter many times, and think that Matt has crafted a very thoughtful, very persuasive and very challenging argument. It asks tough questions about community leadership, and in so doing makes an appeal to raise the bar. There is nothing wrong with that.
Our community cannot ignore the deplorable acts of hate crimes and property destruction. We all need to take action to condemn these actions. Yet, no one has more of an ability to denounce them than those who share a common political motive with the perpetrators. By ignoring the criminal behavior, or worse, by making remarks that might seem to excuse or justify it, such actions do become partially or fully licensed in the minds of the immature, inexperienced, and innately criminal among us. I am sure everyone reading this sees reason in that statement.
While it’s true that, prior to Matt’s letter, many good leaders of the good groups that oppose the rezone have spoken out against these acts, most of their condemnation has come after the act and has been bundled with an absolving “it has nothing to do with us” (as Messmer echoed in her public address). This does little to stop these actions.
I acknowledge and applaud that these groups have taken some proactive steps since Matt’s letter, and may even have had something in the works prior to Matt’s letter being placed in the public record. So, in that sense, many of those leaders acknowledge the legitimacy in Matt’s argument.
Perpetrators and Motive
Submitted by Berd on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 10:22am.We don't know the political motive of the perpetrators. So let's not jump to conclusions. Until suspects are brought in on this, it doesn't benefit to speculate.
There is plausible motive on both sides. What reason do we have to believe that the proponents are above and beyond such an attack?
Stick to the real issue. Ignore the vandalism. Bringing it up only works in favor of those who use such destructive avenues of expression and/or political activity.
...it doesn't benefit to speculate.
Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 11:41am.You said that. I think you should follow your own advice frequently.
Just to clarify
Submitted by Thad Curtz on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 10:49am.1. Two people from the Park initiative group and two people from Friends of the Waterfront went down the morning after Triway's building was vandalized and stood shoulder to shoulder with Councilmembers and Triway's representative Jeannette Hawkins at a press conference to condemn the vandalism. This was the same day Matt sent his letter.
2. I don't "acknowledge the legitimacy" of the argument that we've done anything to encourage anybody to spray paint buildings, or send out creepy satirical postcards, or that we should somehow have been including regular disclaimers and announcements of our opposition to and condemnation of such acts as part of the things we've done to oppose the rezone. They don't have anything to do with we've done, except that the people who've done them also oppose the rezone. And I don't actually see any reason whatever to think that statements of that sort by us would have had any deterrent effect whatsoever on whoever has done those things. This seems to imagine that somehow they would read or hear statements from us about the importance of playing by the rules of the game (which I think it's extremely likely they are convinced is futile) and then would say, "Oh gosh, I guess we should just write some more letters to the editor and go to the hearings again!"
3. I agree with Laurian - I think the tenacity with which this thread of argument is being pursued has been pretty amazing, and I really doubt that anybody's persuading anybody else of anything by now...
Best,
Thad
Attacks and Opposition
Submitted by Berd on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 10:54am.Thad, you wrote, "...the people who've done them also oppose the rezone".
I realize that people don't like to deal with this. Proponents of the rezone/ development are using this issue to distract from the more substantive and basic real issues surrounding the rezone and development.
There is a possibility that some, or all, of these attacks maybe false-flag.
Additionally, it doesn't serve the interests of community wide resolution to keep hammering on the vandalism. As long as there are community members who feel that destruction is an effect means of expression or political action, then these types of acts will continue to occur.
Clarification
Submitted by Berd on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 11:15am.I am not suggesting that it is impossible to consider that people who oppose the rezone performed some or all of these attacks. All I am saying is that we don't know. And there is a real possibility that people who support the rezone performed these attacks.
What reason do we have to assume that people who support the rezone are immune from engaging in such destructive acts?
The odds are remote -- and besides, it's a distraction.
Submitted by Sandy M on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 7:13pm.Far more likely, the vandalism was done by people who feel genuine anger about the rezone and who, like Thad said, feel that playing by the rules is futile.
I don't think that pursuing this question is helpful. Rather, I agree with you that focusing on the vandalism only serves to distract from the main issue of the day -- the rezone. A distraction which Matt and Peter are working overtime to sustain as they use it as a bludgeon,
with whichattempting to discredit and intimidate the rezone opposition and any politician who dares to say publicly the kinds of statements Councilmember Karen Messmer made as shedelivered her "No"moved to delay the rezone vote at the first reading on Dec. 9:So, it's not merely that she voted against the rezone that is problematic for Peter and Matt, it's that she dared to articulate the case so clearly and compellingly against moving forward with the rezone. [UPDATE: And Messmer validated the pending lawsuits which Peter has so energetically endeavored to paint as "threats."]
(CMs Hyer and Strub also voted against the rezone that night, but cited reasons which were less to the point. Hyer said the mitigations were too strict on the developer. And Strub said that she could not stand up to the "emotionalism" of the opposition. Of course, she reversed herself the following week.)
n/t
Submitted by Laurian on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 7:14pm.Dual Roles: Planning Commission and Editorial Board
Submitted by Berd on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 11:11am.Matthew, are you unhappy about being questioned over your dual roles as Planning Commissioner and Editorial Board Member at The Olympian? It seems fair to me for people to question your dual roles. Additionally, it would be relevant, considering your role as a public official, to reveal more details about your back-ground and business interests as they might be relevant to the ongoing development proposal.
People feel unrepresented. My perception of this situation is that you're a pro-growth/ pro-development/ pro-big-business activist, who, upon recent arrival to Olympia, attained positions both on the Editorial Board and on the Planning Commission. Then you went to work on this zoning deregulation proposal, publicly (and should I assume privately as well?) advocating strongly in favor of it.
The problem comes when you are advocating so strongly in the opposite direction from the demonstrated overwhelming majority of those who have spoken on this issue.
It is not unreasonable, given prevailing political factors, to assume that a clear majority of Olympia residents oppose the rezone proposal.
I, along with many others, feels stunted and shunned from the inner mechanics of the decision-making process. It's a revolving door. There's too much money in politics. But it seems that it's people with money who are making and influencing decisions about what to do about the money problem (and everything else.)
I haven't read through your whole article. I have glanced over it.
One part jumped out at me: From Mike Oakland "You didn’t get a long editorial today because it’s the isthmus edit that runs on Sunday. This is the note I put at the end. Does it meet your needs?"
"Does it meet your needs." From my basic reading of this it seems that you might be relying on a note from Mike Oakland in order to absolve you from what is an appearance of your potential involvement in affecting editorial opinion on the isthmus rezone (while simultaneously serving on the Planning Commission.)
I would be interested in taking a look at the Editorial Board Meeting minutes during your time as a member of the Board.
If you're concerned about an appearance of impropriety, then it's tough, but maybe you should have thought of that before you engaged in these dual roles.
Berd
Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 11:46am.you haven't read it
Submitted by samdunkirk on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 12:02pm.Look! A Tempest! Woe for our little teapot!
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 1:38pm.We're in the middle of a snowy cold snap as I write this. The ice and snow barely melts during the day, and what turns slush at the height of mid day becomes ice at night. People in the streets of our city, the so called homeless, will see some friends die during this next few days. It happens almost every winter.
Where do the pro-rezone folks and Tri Vo denounce this violence? Where are the press releases and the earnest posts in defense of Camp Quixote and the calls for fewer privatized plots of land and housing? And when what few posts on this topic do arise, who is their author? Who is it that addresses the roots of this social disease we call poverty? Where is the petition on the Olympian web site to call for the City Council to reopen their rotunda on sub freezing nights?
I'm a human being too, doomed to live in the universal condition of hypocrisy on many points. But I could not sit idly by and watch as elitists decry petty violence while defending yet another give away of public process for private benefits. The Sitting Duck of all rags has a nice piece about City Council emails sent during public meetings, and the contempt and pre-decisions shown there are illustrative to say the least. It's their swan song (if such a term is not offensive to a duck) and we'll be poorer for that small voice's silence. (But I won't miss the sexist cover art!)
I'll expect a concerted campaign to house every person in Cheetwoot who is cold and hungry, and for Peter Alden Stroble and his capable host of 'you should denounce this violence' folks to fund that campaign fully, or I'll know that their own hypocrisy is just that. And so will their attempt to divide us be known for what it really is: A defense of deeper and more deadly violence still.
Bravo Drew, fuckin' Bravo!
Submitted by Laurian on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 2:15pm.Hear, hear.
Submitted by Sandy M on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 2:20pm.Very nice.
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 2:14pm.Speaking of violence.......
Submitted by JP on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 2:35pm."Violence, as a tactic, works." and "We live in the “First World”." Since we benefit from this violence, we have a duty to end it, to stop this system, if we actually abhor violence itself. We might need to use a little of our own violence to stop a lot more of theirs." -Drew Hendricks Works In Progress Sept 07
http://www.olywip.org/site/page/article/2007/09/07.html
"I'm nonviolent, but not a pacifist. I will strike back if I'm attacked. I'll also reach out and slap someone who's attacking my community or my friends, and I'll apologize to no one for that."I will not make my choice (of whether to use violence) from a position of not knowing how to use a rifle, or not having one. I won't give up easily my dignity, or my life; I will struggle constantly to retain the birthrights of my heritage on Earth.""I know my role, and I know the role of the ones who choose a more pacifist way to be, way to live and engage. I do not expect to convert anyone, nor do I try. It tires me, and disappoints me, when people try to 'convert' me by telling me things about pacifism which I know as a historian are gross distortions of the facts as I know them." - Drew Hendricks Works In Progress March 06
http://www.olywip.org/site/page/article/2006/03/04.html
And this has what to do with Drew's comment above?
Submitted by Laurian on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 2:56pm.Nothing. Just more distractions. Makes me wonder if you bothered to read or understand Drew's comment.
Gosh gee yer a clever Mofo.
BFD.
JP is Peter's friend
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 7:50pm.To clarify: It is still hypocritical for someone who calls for denunciation of some examples of violence to excuse a still greater violence by silent consent. It is not hypocritical to point this out while being a person who reserves self defensive violence and collective defensive violence as legitimate options.
The first quote, however, is misquoted by being incomplete. The full quote is something to the effect that violence is better at destroying community than creating it. But advertising pacifism (by contrast) can assure annihilation and ensure unresisted repression. It's not an easy thing to solve, or it would have been solved by now... but I'll add this: you can't 'out-rifle' a nuclear weapon. I'm very glad I have the NV tools I have learned from various and sundry pacifists. Having choices is what is essential to human dignity - and thus preserving choice is the best argument for or against any particular act of violence.
Wait, you forgot this one...
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 3:11pm."...I pick up Chai, a kitten. I hold her by the throat and begin to squeeze. Just a little. She begins to kick and scratch at my hands as I do this."
http://www.olyblog.net/vandals-hit-triways-oly-master-builders#comment-70097
Now, gimmie my 50 million
Submitted by Just another voice on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 2:55pm.But I am Just Another Voice
and this one
Submitted by JP on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 3:16pm.nt
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 3:33pm.You forgot a lot more than that...
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 7:57pm.Drew, I believe I
Submitted by JP on Fri, 12/19/2008 - 10:55pm.Drew, I believe I understood your comment. It was well thought out and well expressed. I understand that you dismiss the whole vandalism issue as a diversionary tactic. Not everyone does. Perhaps rather than spending tens of millions on another park we could use that money to help Oly2012 fund the campaign you are calling for to feed and house the homeless.
I posted your quotes on violence because this thread is about Matt's defense of his role in the rezone and much of the discussion has centered on whether or not he was justified in his belief that the anti-rezone camp had a need to condemn the acts of vandalism. Matt stated that he felt rhetoric coming from that side of the debate may have fanned the flames helping to inspire or justify violent acts (though that was not their intent). I think your statements on violence printed in a publication that has taken a leading role in the debate are pertinent to this discussion. I apologize if you feel I misrepresented your opinions. I linked to them so they could be read in their full context. I can't believe I missed the "Drew Hendricks is Pro-Oppression" article. I'm assuming you're not the author. Sounds like it could have been a nice closer.
And yes Peter and I are friends. I'm not sure if that is clear evidence of a learning disability on my part. If I misread your post it may have been independent of that fact since Peter and I often disagree, sometimes with rude gestures. And Laurian, I'm 1 part clever to 10 parts mofo. Thanks for noticing.
Educations
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Sat, 12/20/2008 - 8:41pm.Meanwhile, he skips entirely the 'greater violence' issue and his side's role in it. He suggests we spend money intended for a park to buy the homeless a fish for today, to be administered for the poor by Oly 2012, a group of upper middle class folks if ever I saw one. Nice suggestion, JP. About as relevant as I would expect, given the central thesis of my critique... that you're still harping on a distraction and avoiding discussion of the roots of the issues.
Besides a blind assertion, you don't even DISPUTE that thesis. As I said, your education serves you well. Privilege doesn't see a need to defend its assumptions.
I'll stand by the learning disability assertion you articulated until you either advocate GIVING the monies to the homeless directly, for their own administration, or stand in (at least) rhetorical solidarity with those who oppose violence against the poor through their actions. The Anarchist-inspired project EGYHOP would be a great place to start. Wanna go on some rounds, JP? Or maybe drop off a package of dry clean socks?
BTW, anonymous violence is corrosive because of the problem of authorship being uncertain; assertions that it is any particular side's fault thus fall flat on the fact that some police DO start shit so that their own violence is excused... my test is whether any particular act freed others for choices of their own or closed choices for many or most. By that test, authorship is less of an issue than effect.
I hate everyone.
Submitted by Ehver Green on Sat, 12/20/2008 - 11:02am.Dude,
Submitted by Katherine on Sat, 12/20/2008 - 12:26pm.No Drew, by that logic a
Submitted by JP on Sun, 12/21/2008 - 2:33pm.No Drew, by that logic a policeman defending armed robbery as a valid form of protest or intervention is partly responsible for armed robbery. I'm glad my education monies were well spent, I earned them washing windows (well that and a pell grant).
You are the one that suggested Oly2012 start and fund a campaign to serve the homeless. It's your idea; if it is only a fish for a day feel free to redefine it. I have zero problem giving the money directly to the homeless. You seem to assume that charity and serving others are foreign to me, you are wrong. You invite me to donate socks or go on a few rounds with EGYHOP like I would recoil from the sight of a poor person like a vampire at the sight of a cross. You know nothing about what I have done in my life to help those in need or what I am doing now. You know nothing about my own circumstances growing up and probably less than you think you do about my current life. If by "privilege" you are are only speaking of race and gender, I think we share those two traits. If you are discussing income, I'm not overly interested in the battle of trying to define how much makes you which class and at what income level you lose your soul and begin to eat babies.
I will not defend or describe my charitable actions to you, especially online. It is a no win situation. I either look like a self-satisfied jerk or you can say I am lying or it is not enough. Everyone could do more, myself included but I am not going to do it your way because you tried to shame me. I'll continue to contribute in the ways I currently do and maybe at some point I will go with EGYHOP, but not as some sort of dare that makes you feel powerful.
I defended Matt's assertion that the anti-rezone rhetoric could be seen as fanning the flames of vandalism because that was part of the initial topic of this thread. As to your thesis, I think it is a false corollary. If you are for the rezone (and against vandalism) you are blind to the plight of those in need and have done nothing to help and have need to decry the treatment of the poor; if you are against the rezone you are doing your part to prevent the violence you speak of. There were no petitions to turn the isthmus into a homeless shelter. Fighting to spend millions and millions on a park to preserve a view does nothing to address the violence you talk about. A view won't keep anyone warm or feed them. Does that position also call for the same denunciation of violence? The reason I supported the height adjustment was I would rather see housing than office space on the isthmus. It was that simple and I believed those were the two realistic choices. I don't think speaking out in favor of a height adjustment on what is already private land is inspiring others to neglect the homeless or means one is ignoring the plight of the hungry.
I think Kathleen is right though and this discussion is serving no real purpose other than to annoy and depress the rest of the olybloggers. I'll take my fair share of credit for that and I'll let you have the last word since that is only fair.
Oly 2012
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Sun, 12/21/2008 - 3:17pm.Your defending Tri Vo's right to build million dollar housing downtown is not defense of adding housing, it's defense of pricing it out of reach for everyone in cheaper downtown housing now. Those prices will rise, not fall.
IF you raise the average rents, smaller landlords will try to fetch the mean and raise their specific rents, rather than be 'left behind.' It's faulty analysis on their parts, but predictable. Especially if you read history.
If you read my posts, you'll notice my critiques of violence are hardly advocacy of it; all I refused to do was sufficiently denounce it. Your police analogy fails on that alone... but raises issues beyond the scope of this thread.
Very Interesting. But have
Submitted by w1r3d1 on Sun, 12/21/2008 - 5:25pm.LOL
Submitted by Katherine on Sun, 12/21/2008 - 5:33pm.