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Submitted by The Fire Inside on Fri, 11/30/2007 - 6:46pm.

The Second Amendment, as far as I can find, is the only constitutional guarantee which the state can prohibit an individual from exercising with the endorsement of the judicial.

Even those protesting at the Port of Olympia who feel their various constitutional protections were violated by the state can seek recourse. As has been presented to OlyBlog, the City of Seattle was forced to compensate for the 1999 World Trade Organization rioting in which the federal court system ruled in favor of the private citizen being violated by the state.

Thus, if you feel your constitutional guarantees other than the Second have been violated, a reasonable person can assume they will have the opportunity to present their side to an unbiased judiciary which may find in their favor.

So why is it that the Second Amendment is able to be suspended - with approval from the judicial? A quick scan of Wikipedia (hardly an academic authority but an appropriate source for a quick snippet) reveals the state can suspend the Second Amendment when an individual has been:

1. Involuntarily committed to a mental institution

2. Convicted of a felony

3. Convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence[65][66] or not, since in one jurisdiction the Gun Ban for Individuals Convicted of a Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence law was ruled a violation of the 2nd and 5th Amendments and was ruled unconstitutional for two years though that decision was reversed on appeal and the Supreme Court has not granted certiorari.

4. Convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence and in the military, and being unable as a soldier in uniform to handle any weapons, although per Department of Defense policy, crew-served weapons such as tanks, missiles, and aircraft are exempt from the Gun Ban for Individuals Convicted of a Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence law and may be handled or used by a soldier previously convicted of a crime of domestic violence despite the same individual not being allowed to handle or use a pistol.

5. Dishonorably discharged from the military

I was actually pretty surprised that being dishonorably discharged from the military is sufficient ground for the government to suspend your constitutional guarantees, but now that question on the sheet you have to fill out to purchase a firearm from a retailer makes more sense.

Now we come to Sean Taylor. As I'm sure most are aware by now, Taylor was a safety for the Washington Redskins. His home was broken into and, unfortunately, Taylor was shot and later died from the amount of blood loss. The only defense available (and acceptable if one wanted to be a law-abiding citizen) to Taylor? A machete.

Taylor's ability to exercise a constitutional guarantee was suspended because of a no-contest plea to displaying a handgun during a fight.

There was no recourse for Sean Taylor - and numerous other Americans, is no recourse - when the judicial is working hand-in-hand with each level of government to determine just how much of the Second Amendment we should be "privileged" to exercise.

»

Wow....

I really don't have the energy for a Second Amendments discussion tonight but I wasn't aware that Taylor had a history with weapons issues.

Hopefully, someone will be arrested and I'll be interested to see if there is some sort of history between the parties.  People with histories of weapons charges and violence often times kill each other.

»

I second the lack of energy tonight

But found this post interesting.  To be honest, I don't follow the lives of sports players, and don't know enough about this person to comment.  In fact I had no idea who he was until recently. 
»

4 Kids Were Arrested Today

Story here

2 17 yr. olds an 18 year old and a 20 year old.  They all had ties to Sean Taylor "Kevin Bacon style" - 6 degrees of seperation!

»

WTF?

"They were certainly not looking to go there and kill anyone," Parker said. "They were expecting a residence that was not occupied. So murder or shooting someone was not their initial motive."

Then why were they carrying a friggin' gun? 
Real intelligent looking bunch BTW there...

»

well this is a little disconcerting...

Parker said, "(t)hey were expecting a residence that was not occupied. So murder or shooting someone was not their initial motive." Six responds, "(t)hen why were they carrying a friggin' gun?"

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but you are the guy who says he openly carries a firearm around, right?

»

There's a difference between

There's a difference between carrying a gun in public for protection and packing it while committing attempted robbery.

»

If there's a difference,

you should explain it. Enpen and my simple minds can't seem to grasp how you carrying a gun just in case is any different than them carrying a gun just in case. I would think they, in their situation (breaking into house) would need a gun more than you would walking around Olympia.

Besides the fact that you can, that the law allows you to, why do you carry a gun in Olympia? I mean, maybe I could see it in E. St. Louis or Detroit or Baltimore, but we have some of the lowest violent crime rates in the nation here, even lower armed crime rates. I don't get it, a lot of people don't get it. Can you provide some clarity to us idiots?

»

Not even funny Rob

Really not at all. Enpen as well.
»

I can see you beef with Rob

but not enpen in this case.
»

Less Enpen

but he got the ball rolling, and I doubt that he can't see the difference between carrying a firearm in day-to-day life, and carrying a firearm while breaking into a house. He's a pretty intelligent guy.
»

If there's a difference, you

If there's a difference, you should explain it.

As a handgun owner, I'll make an attempt.

A firearm is only a tool.

I would think they, in their situation (breaking into house) would need a gun more than you would walking around Olympia.

Correct. As I said, a firearm is only an inanimate tool which can be used for only one purpose: to kill. This is why security_six asked Why are they carrying a gun? If you're carrying a handgun you're willing to take another individual's life.

It's just the reason you're taking their life. I know many of you will - and do - disagree with the idea that there are valid reasons to take a person's life on the street, but more than a few of us subscribe to it. Within the broad scope that there are instances when it is acceptable to take someone's life on the street is more reasoning.

For instance, we allow law enforcement to make that decision should they feel threatened in a way that they may not be able to defend themselves in no other way. We pay law enforcement not to lose the fight.

It's acceptable for a private citizen to defend themselves if they're approached in a threatening manner (and the private citizen has much more leeway in making this determination than a government agent.)

And then there are the situations which fall outside of being acceptable to take another person's life. "While robbing his home" would most certainly be one.

why do you carry a gun in Olympia?

Some of us refuse to be another defenseless victim no matter what city we're in.

Beyond that, there's also the factor that a handgun owner can help other people. Remember the off-duty police officer in Utah who was able stop the shooter from doing more damage than there would have been?

I'm convinced that during 9/11, had there been one person on each plane (and it doesn't necessarily need to be an agent of the government) exercising their Second Amendment guarantees, the outcome for each plane had the chance to turn out very differently.

I know when I was young and traveled via air I had already been prepped on what to do if there was an active threat on the plane, long before 9/11. This may amaze some people, but some of us sit around thinking about how people are going to kill us. I know I used to sit in lecture and think about what I would do if an active shooter came into the building. More than once during a near empty theater I've wondered what would happen if someone came in wishing to do everyone harm and what would be the best route to take in either getting out of the situation or working to stop the person.

Then I hear how "surprised" people are at the Virginia Tech shooting. Personally, I didn't think it was a surprise at all.

Getting back on track, though. I think security_six would say he doesn't want to be the one person that's the victim of an armed robbery in Olympia. Sure, overall we're far more safe in Olympia than East Saint. But you as an individual can be a victim in any city, regardless of the overall chance.

»

All that paranoia

is going to kill you.
»

Well said

You have touched on every valid point I would have.  Thank you for a clear and enlightening comment.

To answer the question though, I carry a gun because I choose to be proactive about my defense.  When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

I had a conversation with a local cop once about armed citizens.  He didn't like the way I was upsetting the status quo by openly carrying my handgun.  He did make on statement that I wholeheartedly agreed with.  He said that if he or another cop was in trouble, he would hope that I, or any other armed citizen would be willing to step up and render aid.  I told him, that I would hope I would be able to render that aid given the circumstance.

I spoke with another gentleman who works as head of security for an expensive club in downtown Seattle.  As part of his job, he regularly meets with the local police.  He brought up openly carrying handguns at one meeting and the general consenus was that an armed citizen, especially an openly armed citizen is one less person the PD had to worry about protecting in downtown Seattle. 

I have openly carried my 9mm in downtown Seattle many times, and have walked by and talked with cops while doing so.  None of them ever felt the need to suggest I was doing something wrong.  A responsibly armed citizen is an asset to the community, and one more person who may not need the protection of an often thinly stretched blue line.  

I carry a gun because a whole cop would be too heavy. 

»

I don't have a problem with

I don't have a problem with people who've displayed violence (or especially gun violence) in the past being banned from legally carrying them. It makes sense - even people who aren't going to agree should at least be able to see that point for what it is.

The part about dishonorable discharges has me thinking though. So...if a soldier commits adultery, or goes on tv and denounces the White House, or "tells" when they weren't "asked", then they can end up not being able to legally own firearms?

Please give me a second grace. Please give me a second face. I've fallen far down, the first time around, now I just sit on the ground in your way.
Nick Drake

»

"Real intelligent looking bunch BTW there..."

S6,

Please explain this. I don't want to make assumptions about what you mean here, perhaps you have some insight into the science of judging a person's intelligence based on their physical appearance, so I'm wondering what detail you see in the photos that makes you think they don't "look intelligent".

I personally don't think you can tell a person's intelligence from looking at them. Am I wrong?

»

Slack jawed and

Expressionless eyes.  None of them looked particular alert in the photos.

Did I offend you somehow by looking for common visual cues of awareness 

»

OK

You're just not a very good judge of intelligence, at least it wasn't what I thought at first.
»

Come on, say it!

You were thinking I was one of them thar negro haters right?  If that was the case, I will go on record for saying PC culture has gone too far, when a person cannot make a negative comment about another and have to fear being branded a racist simply because the person was of another skin tone.

If that was not the case, please disregard what I have said. 

»

This is what I witnessed

You looked at their pictures and decided they were not intelligent.

I look at their pictures and I see four black men, and know way to discern their intelligence. I think it's reasonable for me to wonder how you came to your conclusion.

I think Bill Cosby is a nutjob. I think OJ Simpson should have been sent to prison after killing his wife, not on the streets planning armed robberies. I think Michael Jackson molests little boys and gets away with it because he's rich. I think Fifty Cent and his circus are the worst thing to happen to hip-hop since MC Hammer and I would be happy if he disappeared and was forgotten about entirely.

The difference between me having said these negative things about four black men, and you what you said is that what I said was based on their actions and how I perceive them to be as people, based on my knowledge of their lives. You looked at a picture of four black men and came to the conclusion that they were not intelligent. I'm trying to understand how that happened in your brain. I believe you when you say you're not racist, I'm just curious as to what in your programming caused you to make the observation that you did.

»

Tired

This will be about the sixth time I tried to post this, so not as concise as I would like.

***strong language alert**** skip to the next line if you are easily offended, you have been warned.

I fucking hate the term "programing" when used in context.  It indicates actions controled by others, not yourself.

That said, I made my judgements based on visual cues and knowledge of past actions of these people.

I made a snap judgement based on that information, something I often do.  Since I survive and thive having made decisions on a snap basis, I am happy with whatever internal process arrives at these decisions.  And to settle your mind, I make them on white people too.

Since I am happy with where I am and who I am today I am quite pleased with snap judgments I have made in the past.   

»

Look at this moron!

»

Whatever...

Look at these before and after pictures. Would you have given this person while an addict the time of day, or considered them an especially fine version of intelligence?

Looks like to me the person while an addict did not have a lot going for them between their ears.

But I forget you are a champion for everyperson, an especially admirable goal, while I make a living selling things. I don't have the time to waste on people who don't "look" like they are candidates for what I have to sell. I have demographics, I know my main audience and I target them.

I am expecting "and how can you safely carry a gun if you make snap judgements based on apperance?" flames now... please don't I'm really not in the mood...

 

»

not a good example to use on me

I work with meth addicts in worse shape than she appears to be in, and yes, when you take the time to get to know a person, no matter how hard a drug controls them they can be show themselves to be incredibly intelligent.
»

But making a snap judgement

Would you consider that person anything other than an addict?  Remember, we are talking about snap judgements, not getting to know someone.
»

You should read "Blink" by

You should read "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell to learn more about the power, good and bad, of snap judgments.
»

Another slack jawed idiot...

»

Oh for crying out loud Rob,

Oh for crying out loud Rob, S6 saw four slack-jawed individuals who happened to be black. I suspect he would have made the same assumption if they were white or orange. Sounds like you need to dial 1-800-YT-GUILT and be counciled

Please give me a second grace. Please give me a second face. I've fallen far down, the first time around, now I just sit on the ground in your way.
Nick Drake

»

LOL

n/t
»

Right.

I don't think I'm the one who needs counseling simply because I point out a person's inherent racism. We all have it, and I'm not calling anybody outright racist here. We are, sorry S6, programmed in one way or another in our society to think black is bad and white is good. I can give you many examples from pop culture, movies, etc. Even black people themselves exhibit signs of it. It's not just OK to talk about, but we should talk about it, otherwise it's just going to sit there.

We are not very far removed from out nation's intensely racist past, some places in our country are just as bad now as some places were in the sixties. We made racism illegal, but we didn't didn't do anything to really get rid of it. It's still there and we should confront it every chance we get. Even in seemingly trivial cases such as this.

»

First you say

You believe me when I say I'm not a racist, and then accuse me of being one?  WTF?

 Black, white, red, yellow, or orange with purple polka dots.  If I don't like their "looks" I'll say so.  

But I just happened to say that about some blacks.  Oh my.  Horrors.  

So a white person should only comment on whites?  What is the line?  When is it not okay to make a judgement call?  Hmmm??? 

This attitude makes me sick.  There is no programming, no racism here.  Just a judgement based on past behavior and visual cues. 

Why can't you get past YOUR programming?  I hate to break it to you, but just because a person doesn't like the visual cues and body language of someone it doesn't make them a racist.

Of course then that wouldn't validate your worldview of fighting social injustice right?

There are a lot of injustices out there, but in trying to fight them you shouldn't paint everything with the same brush. 

Taking the moral high ground is fine.  It is even better when you are grounded in reality.   

»

"some blacks"

There have been a number of studies done that show even black people are susceptible to inherent racism against black people. One example is that when given a standardized test, black students who were asked to mark their race on the test did worse on the test than black students who did not have to mark their race. This points to an inherent societal racism that affects everyone. I won't call it programming anymore because you don't like that word, but there is something ingrained in us that makes us think black is bad and white is good.

Again, not saying you are a name-calling cross-burning racist. I'm even willing to admit that had it been four "slack jawed" white boys you would have had the same reaction. I didn't mean to offend, a bell went off and I went with it.

»

Well enough...

I didn't mean to offend, a bell went off and I went with it.

As I'm sure you have noticed I will run stuff sometimes too when a bell goes off. 

»

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