Update on Tacoma PMR Activities

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Update on Tacoma PMR Activities

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 08/03/2008 - 8:36pm.

Olympia activists have been very prominent in recent protests against the revolving door of aggression between our government and Iraq. To update: several protestors and demonstrators have been arrested as a result of their attempts to stop the enabling function that public ports have for an illegal military action.

I support our troops and soldiers. I support the truth. Bush lied about the threat posed by Iraq. He lied in order to take the nation to war. The war is illegal and it debases humanity.

We have the power to stop the unnecessary sacrifice of our fellow Americans. We have the power to stop an act of aggression committed by our government.

Thank you to all those heroes who stand on the line in resistance to the militarization of society as our government plunges us into the darkness of aggression, and sacrifices young folk for the sake of a vision of global dominance.

Join PMR. We can stop the war.

Robert Whitlock's blog
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Disgusting picture

Submitted by Keith Hufnagel on Sun, 08/03/2008 - 9:30pm.

Yet extremely well taken as usual [edit: I thought this was another one of your pictures, Bert, but I do not know who Bethel is]. Regardless, I have to ask: what could the victim in the photo could have done to deserve to be stomped on the ground? I am at a loss for answers. Even if I was a one-sided, racist police officer, I would still treat people with no weapons more reasonably than that. To do otherwise would negate my supposed ability to deal with the situation appropiately. I'm taking my protest to the pump. Nothing illegal about letting US citizens know that by buying Middle Eastern gas they are contributing to a three trillion dollar war. I'd buy South American gas (which is cheaper) before Middle Eastern gas because the Middle East is using the fast money from oil to make more nukes. There's that revolving door you mentioned, Bert.

You mentioned...

Submitted by The Fire Inside on Sun, 08/03/2008 - 11:33pm.

That you're in the U.S. military. Do you think what this officer is doing - placing his foot on a detainee (not "stomp[ing]") - is outside of normal, prescribed doctrine when there is an "active" situation?

It's also clear the officer isn't putting his weight onto the person on the ground.

normal prescribed doctrine

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 2:52pm.

It is normal, prescribed doctrine. That's the problem with it. The police are coming down upon pro-democracy, anti-war, free-speech activists. The police are, quite simply, on the wrong side of justice in this matter - because since Bush lied to us about the threat posed by Iraq, the war is unjustified. It's a war of choice and hence, illegal.

The proper and moral (not to mention legal) attitude of the police officer should be to stand alongside the protestors and enforce a halt to the machine of aggression.

Point of Fact

Submitted by manofsteelbeams on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 9:49pm.

One the assumptions you have made undermines your position. In fact, the President never lied about the threat posed by Iraq (If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it). Being wrong (In my humble opinion, he wasn't) and lying are NOT the same thing. As ALL wars are essentially wars of choice (after all - we could have simply surrendered after Pearl Harbor or ignored the secession of the Confedrate States), your conclusion that this war is somehow illegal is also baseless.

Depends

Submitted by Keith Hufnagel on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 11:09pm.

Threat level close to null = foot for show. My hand to hand combat manual taught me to react according to threat level. As a combatant, I recognize no threat in Bethel's photo. Don't forget the word "depends" in your "normal doctrine" Fire Inside. To do otherwise would be nothing more than a nazi blanket policy on a blanket group which is even more disgusting than the photo itself (which was well taken Bethel!).

Thanks. Glad you like the

Submitted by Bethel on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 4:09pm.

Thanks. Glad you like the shot.

I have no idea what happened on that bridge.

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sun, 08/03/2008 - 11:05pm.

But picking that bridge as a protest site...sucks. I mean, it really, really sucks. This old army brat is pissed off. Sure. I know you are all pissed off about the war...so am I. But this is clueless and classless behavior. Dumb to the tenth degree.

About the bridge

Submitted by a.future.with.n... on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 9:42am.

The site was chosen for a demonstration by the Iraq Veterans Against The War who, I feel, have as good a right to "Freedom Bridge" as anybody who regularly goes there.

On the PMR blockade side of things, thats where the Strykers went. PMR goes where the Strykers go. I'm sure they would have preferred a different bridge but weren't really afforded the choice.

Don't get upset about a silly bridge. Maybe consider getting upset about the police tasering people unprovoked.

http://seattle.indymedia.org/en/2008/08/268104.shtml

Let's not tell each other what to be concerned about

Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 10:38am.

The fact that I am concerned about the feelings of those waiting for their fathers and mothers to return from a war zone does not mean I am unconcerned about other things, like tazers, the war, etc. You honestly know better than that.

When I was 10 I spent 1968 with my mother and three siblings at Schilling Manor, a post just outside of Salina, Kansas. My father and most everyone else's father was in Vietnam. We waited our year there surrounded by cornfields. The country was catching on fire back then, but people were nice enough to leave us alone.

I won't tell you how to feel. But I suggest you imagine being a kid who goes cold with fear whenever he sees an official-looking car approaching his street, and what it's like for that kid to hope that car goes to someone else's house. For the sake of that kid, pick another bridge (not his)...there are so many of them.

<Applause>

Submitted by Ehver Green on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 10:48am.

That is really sad Gug

Submitted by Norm on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 12:25pm.

Well put, but sad.

Not sad.

Submitted by Keith Hufnagel on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 11:20pm.

What is sad is the reality of so many US soldiers who fought in Vietnam. The soldiers who fought were those US citizens who like me had no doctor's note to escape the draft. They went believing in their country and returned to find that even their own country hated them...if they came back. Conditions were harsh in Vietnam so many soldiers self medicated only to come back and lose all military benefits as a result. The whole situation disgusts me. What's worse is that most vets (and their families) don't want to even talk about it. So they walk among us with no recognition of the difficulties, struggles, and ESPECIALLY the triumphs that occurred in the first war that the US lost. You hit the nail on the head, Norm. It is sad. I just want to clarify that the situation is NOT SAD because of Gug's sensitivity. The situation is sad because of the often-ignored circumstances that plagued the lies about the dominoe theory and the circumstances of that war in general.

I'd never equate the great cruelties and sadness of war

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 08/05/2008 - 9:19am.

and my childhood experience. Mine is one small story, there are many more and many far sadder.

"What's worse is that most vets (and their families) don't want to even talk about it. So they walk among us with no recognition of the difficulties, struggles,..."

Perhaps one of the reasons they are quiet is because they don't want to be told to "forget about that silly bridge" or "there are worse things."

My last word on the matter: I didn't share my experience to get sympathy or to hurt the anti-war effort (I support it). My first comment was an expression of anger (never a good idea). The second was an attempt to describe a very small segment of our population that appears to be invisible to many, including PMR. I used my own experience to do so.

Hw dr y?

Submitted by Norm on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 12:10pm.

Wh th hll d y thnk y r? r y rlly s rrgnt tht y cn tll m tht hw fl bt stry s fls?

Hw bt ths n: fl sd fr y. nyn wh cn cmpltly dscnt smn's flngs ftr rdng hrtflt stry hs t hv sm xtrm mntl mblnc. hp tht y cn gt tht tkn cr f bfr vryn n yr lf pgs y s slf-cntrd knw-t-ll jrk.

Gd blss

In case anyone missed it

Submitted by Norm on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 3:02pm.

I basically told Keith that he has no right to try and correct my interpretation of Gug's story and to do so is pretty arrogant.

The keeper of olyblog seemed to not like my defending myself.

Yeah...

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 3:50pm.

I'm not sure why you deserved to be disemvowled. I think yours was a fair reaction to someone telling you how you should think and feel. Keith's dismisive attitude deserved a little special attention in my opinion. But I'm obviously biased.

shrug

Submitted by Norm on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 5:20pm.

your guess is as good as mine. Thanks for your thoughts on my reaction. And again, thanks for sharing your story, I thought it fit well and obviously was heartfelt.

Sorry Norm

Submitted by Keith Hufnagel on Thu, 08/07/2008 - 2:30pm.

I didn't mean to attack you personally. I was trying to change the mood from sad to inspirational. Lets put a stop to all official looking cars driving through our neighborhoods by changing the tactics of war from offensive to defensive. Lets use Vietnam's harsh realities as an inspiration. Lets get even motivated instead of sad (even though it is sad, we must look past that and find inspiration from the pain- that was the point of my fuzzy post above). Sorry my post came out wrong. Happens a lot to me.

I appreciate the clarification and the PM

Submitted by Norm on Thu, 08/07/2008 - 5:03pm.

Bridge as Protest Site

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 5:02pm.

What about using the bridge as a protest site do you object to. It seems imminently rational to me. After all, this protest is not against the soldiers. It is against a war that is needlessly sacrificing the soldiers. The protest is in support of the soldiers. It's to defend them from being slaughtered in an unjustified operation.

Really?

Submitted by Ehver Green on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 5:54pm.

Did you happen to read the entire thread? I think the reasons were quite appearant. I suppose from a legal standpoint they're protected. The problem, as I see it, is that it creates an atmosphere of chaos and I lose sight of your message. Much like what we saw at our port. Maybe OPMR should consider a name change to reflect their current tactics.

I'm confused - is OPMR's message of support for the troops and their families, or just the troops? You seem to forget the entire family and these families rally around their loved ones on that bridge. From what I've heard, and it's not confirmed, the protesters on that bridge looked pretty foolish. Got pushed around pretty good and didn't achieve squat. Par for the course.

It seems imminently rational to me.

The gates of Ft. Lewis, McChord, Bremerton Navel Base, Everett Naval Base, Seattle MEPS, and Bangor seems much more rational to me.

pppcck

Submitted by Real Olympian Hero on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 10:54am.

" ls sght f yr mssg."

Snc whn hv y vr trd t lstn t smn ls's mssg? 'v bn rdng lyBlg fr lng tm nd nly rcntly strtng bng nythng cls t ctv nd y, sr, hv lwys ttckd thr ppl whn y dsgr wth thm. Tht's fn, ths st bvsly llws tht. Bt dn't try t vr prtnd tht y'r pn mndd bt thngs nd cld b prsdd, y'v nvr shwn wllngnss t lstn. Mst b rl ht lvng wth y.

<>"Lt s b thnkfl fr th fls. Bt fr thm th rst f s cld nt sccd." Y knw wh y r, thnks fr hlpng m sccd.

Come again?

Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 11:22am.

Come again?

You're right Rob. It's not at all rational.

Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 6:55pm.

The war is rational to some. Doesn't justify it though, does it?

comparison

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Tue, 08/05/2008 - 3:03am.

I am sorry that you're grieved by the presence of protesters on the bridge. But to compare the irrationality of the war, to your objection to protesters on the bridge - well it's like comparing apples and oranges.

It's just two different fruits.

I'm not making comaprisons between

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 08/05/2008 - 8:27am.

the Bridge and the war. My last post was simply a comment about "rationality," a word you threw into the mix. Compassion should not be tossed to the side of the road, and it was.

Also, I am not grieved by the presence of potesters on the bridge. I am angry, annoyed, mystified... I am simply pointing out a fact the protesters should consider when choosing thier actions because it doesn't appear to be on their radar.

Future, given the repeated lies published by OlyPMR,

Submitted by JT on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 10:50am.

and Indymedia after the Olympia Port protests in Nov 2007, I wouldn't believe anything posted by these groups. Their credibility is zero.

My feeling about the officer's position in the pic above is that he has put himself at some risk by being that close to the rail of the overpass and could be forced to lose his balance by the suspect on the ground.

As for him controlling the suspect with his foot, if there is a dynamic event taking place at the time, out of view of the pic, freeing up his hands to deal with that by keeping the suspect prone with his foot until transport is available is good work, and probably more comfortable for the suspect than having a knee in his back or on his neck.

As far as the war protestors going to this overpass, it was nothing more than poking the pro-troops crowd in the eye. Bad plan, and yet again the war protestors shoot themselves in the foot by gathering negative press, and turning those who may agree with them but angered by their tactics of insensitivity.

If you are bored with Olyblog, come have some fun at the cool forum spot in Olympia, "olyforums.org/forum"

itchyhitch.blogspot.com

My feeling about the

Submitted by The Fire Inside on Mon, 08/04/2008 - 2:47pm.

My feeling about the officer's position in the pic above is that he has put himself at some risk by being that close to the rail of the overpass and could be forced to lose his balance by the suspect on the ground.

That part of the picture completely passed me by, but you're definitely right.

There were only a few

Submitted by Bethel on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 8:04am.

There were only a few protesters and as many as fifty well armed cops with dogs and lord only knows what. The protesters showed no resistance and were unarmed. The policeman in the picture had complete control over where he could place this protester. He chose to drag her prone and handcuffed to the spot in this picture. Thus, from the facts on the scene, I can confidently say the officer was under no threat at all, and the position in the picture was wholly his choice.

and completely the right choice

Submitted by Norm on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 12:12pm.

If the suspect is in the custody of this officer than he is in charge of his/her well-being. The foot placed where it is means that there is no chance that he/she is going to roll over more glass, be dragged of by his/her friends or try to get on his/her feet and run away.

Kudos to the Tacoma police for being better prepared than Oly PD.

Congratulations on an

Submitted by Bethel on Fri, 08/08/2008 - 9:17am.

Congratulations on an absolutely spectacular rationalization. I was there. I took the shot. Please believe me when I say NO ONE was in any danger and there was no need for that officer to put his foot on her back. Yes - it was on her back, I asked her to confirm that. You think he's worried about her rolling in the glass? Then why did he drag her into it? You're worried about some other protesters dragging her away? See the other officers legs? The place was filled with scores of police. There was no way anyone was going to get to her to do that. But you go ahead and keep on dreaming about how nice this policeman is if it keeps you from having nightmares.

Judge Not, Christians

Submitted by Real Olympian Hero on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 10:59am.

Those of you who so blatantly criticize these protesters on these threads are guilty of what you accuse them of. Maybe you all need to find a more affective way to spread your thoughts, then maybe you could actually have a conversation - oh - silly me - I thought that was why we were here. Sorry. Won't happen again. So...

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

"Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed." You know who you are, thanks for helping me succeed.

It's only Satire, Rob.

Submitted by Mary Baker Eddy on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 11:12am.

It's only Satire, Rob.

Freudian Slip

Submitted by Mary Baker Eddy on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 11:13am.

My bad, I meant Roh. Apologies all around.

It's OK - I've known for

Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 11:17am.

It's OK - I've known for some time now. I brought it to Rick's attention a few days ago but he played coy.

It took a good amount of scripting but I pulled a snapshot of the Online Users list every 15 minutes for several days. Never once were RR and ROH logged in at the same time. Odd.

Actually,

Submitted by Rick on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 2:43pm.

I asked you who you thought it was, but you didn't reveal your suspicions. If it is Rob, then he is indeed violating the comment policy. I'll take your evidence into consideration.

Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt

It could be a housemate...

Submitted by The Original Yoda on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 2:49pm.

...using the same computer.

Good point.

Submitted by Rick on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 2:51pm.

Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt

Am I the only one who thinks this is really creepy?

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 10:20pm.

Not subjecting myself to this freakish, paranoid survielence mentality. Not a safe environment. Later.

Oh, I think it's creepy too.

Submitted by Real Olympian Hero on Thu, 08/07/2008 - 2:46pm.

I may have had a little fun at your, and your mayor's, expense, but that doesn't give you the right to play your internet stalker games. I'm really freaked out right now. You have no idea what I may have been through what that could trigger when you tell me you've been monitoring my activity. Its gross. You should seek some therapy before this leads to worse things.

Way to make a lady feel welcome, I'm outta here. Please delete my account.

If you're a lady than so am

Submitted by Mary Baker Eddy on Thu, 08/07/2008 - 3:08pm.

If you're a lady than so am I!

Shrinks and Therapy

Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 08/07/2008 - 3:37pm.

More circumstantial evidence. On this thread, ROH suggests I need therapy.

Here, Rob Richards asks if a shrink is covered by my insurance policy. The thread was started by, of course, ROH and the subject was again, Doug Mah.

No more for me on this one after Robert W. pointed out scope creep (pun intented). I'd be happy to discuss with ROH and RR in PM's or a new thread.

There's a sign on the wall in my living room that goes like this --

"Truthful. If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." -Mark Twain

Hey hero

Submitted by Arts From The Heart on Fri, 08/08/2008 - 9:34am.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

They are both online now!

Submitted by The Original Yoda on Thu, 08/07/2008 - 2:38pm.

RR and ROH. 3:38pm There goes that theory.

Please

Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 08/07/2008 - 3:04pm.

Too bad he didn't cover tracks just a little better from the beginning.

Only need two computers to pull that one off,

Submitted by JT on Fri, 08/08/2008 - 4:55am.

people have noticed ROH and RR have the same IP.

If you are bored with Olyblog, come have some fun at the cool forum spot in Olympia, "olyforums.org/forum"

itchyhitch.blogspot.com

Yeah, RR's new moniker has been known

Submitted by JT on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 11:38am.

for sometime now.

Funny thing, I had may ass repeatedly kicked by the powers to be here when I did it, and threatened with banishment if I ever did it again, even though I likely had a better reason than RR. But, then when have things been fair here?

Bethel, no doubt the choice was the officer's for his positioning. I was merely pointing out the officer made a bad choice for his own safety.

If you are bored with Olyblog, come have some fun at the cool forum spot in Olympia, "olyforums.org/forum"

itchyhitch.blogspot.com

Nothing is fair JT

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 11:44am.

that's why "The weak shall perish." ;)

True

Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 12:16pm.

But I worked on a policy for Olyblog where this was explicitly called out as a no-no. Don't do it or you're gone. ROH was created to bash Mah. And to twist my panties so tight that my head explodes. Wow, hard hitting stuff! =)

By the way, it's ORY, not ARY.

Yeah, that's a pretty mature poster

Submitted by Norm on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 12:17pm.

The funny thing is, if it is really Rob that is using the account, I wouldn't even blink if someone told me he wore panties....I can't imagine you doing that though Zach.

I bet Rob's goes commando most of the time

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 12:24pm.

EG is more of of a boxer brief kind of guy I'd guess. The only article of clothing he owns that doesn't have "Microsoft" printed on it.

Is that his one and only Mac?

Submitted by Mary Baker Eddy on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 12:26pm.

Is that his one and only Mac?

Wait, wait.

Submitted by Laurian on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 2:39pm.

It's a public bridge. Who in the hell gave it to one faction? The overpass in question was appropriated a few years back by a small and fanatical pro-war faction. Since then people of all stripes have made their views on the war known. It it not hallowed ground. It is a public space open to all. Or open to none.

I think protesting near or in a graveyard for fallen service persons like the self-proclaimed Christians of the Westboro Church do is way out of bounds but that is not the case here.

BTY I think the PMR tactics are ass backwards. We in the anti-war movement want the soldiers and their equipment to be re-patriated. Blocking the return of military equipment is akin to closing the barn door after the cows have fled. When I brought up this point in a PMR meeting on the eve of the Olympia protests I was poo pooed and spoken to condecendingly. Sadly the PMR has launched its self down a macho feel-good but politically inept path.

Hear, hear.

Submitted by Rick on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 2:44pm.

The bit about the tactics.

I personally think it isn't an issue about who the bridge belongs to as much as how to win friends and influence people. For some unknown reason, PMR has never seen either of those as a priority.

Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt

Wow.

Submitted by DrewHendricks on Fri, 08/08/2008 - 4:27pm.

"We in the anti-war movement want the soldiers and their equipment to be re-patriated."
Some of us in the anti-imperialist movement know what that equipment will be used for once it is home, and don't look forward to our own escalated occupation or yet another new imperial adventure in Iran.

"Blocking the return of military equipment is akin to closing the barn door after the cows have fled."
Failing to challenge the production of empire at each step in production is simply failure. Vehicles (especially Stryker Combat Vehicles) which return to be refurbished are every bit as much part of the occupation. They go back to Iraq (or they go to Iran).

"When I brought up this point in a PMR meeting on the eve of the Olympia protests I was poo pooed and spoken to condecendingly."
Wow. You showed up for one whole meeting and everyone did not immediately follow your lead. I should assume this is the same meeting at which you volunteered your phone for Jail support. When this line was abandoned on the second day of the November 2007 campaign, we knew where you stood. I certainly understand how much it hurts to be verbally abused by PMR participants (WC 12-20-07) but I think you got off light, given that you're not anti-imperialist and you're prone to call folks views 'paranoid' if they don't share your Polly-Anna view of social change.

"Sadly... inept paths" rarely set the terms of debate. PMR's does. When we're talking on a thread all about YOUR tactics of resistance against the war, then we'll revisit the terms "sad" and "inept."

Whatever Drew

Submitted by Laurian on Sat, 08/09/2008 - 11:26am.

This sort of neo-Trotsky 'more radical than thou' 'tude is tiring. So how is stopping the Imperial war machine thing going anyway? Not so good, huh? Stop any Strykers? No? That's a shame.

If you cared to read anything other than your own propaganda or took a break from wallowing in PMR group think, you might understand the machine rolls on and right over you. I am glad your impotent rage and ideological purity makes you feel superior to the rest of us, or at least me. That's a good thing, right?

Group Think?

Submitted by DrewHendricks on Mon, 08/11/2008 - 11:52am.

I'd rather think as a group than not at all, but your 'tude about PMR thought processes isn't grounded in reality.

You're the only one throwing 'tude, dude. I'm pointing out why we did what we do, rather than carp at those who take risks as you sit idly on the sidelines and - wait, feel superior? Projection! You're freaking projecting! Funny.

I'm glad I entertain you but I must ask once again

Submitted by Laurian on Mon, 08/11/2008 - 3:02pm.

How many Strykers have the PMR stopped from returning from, or being sent back to, Iraq? This is an avowed goal of PMR.

You can switch subjects to intangibles like raising consciousness, claiming victory in Olympia, or go after me personally, but the one thing you cannot claim is sucess realizing one of PMRs central goals. Where the PMR seem to be succeeding is in alienating it's self from a lot of folks opposed to the war.

Ya know what the the funny part of this sub thread is? It began with me supporting of the right of people to gather and protest Port militarization. With that, I'm walkin' away.

Effectiveness of PMR

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Mon, 08/11/2008 - 3:29pm.

PMR has been effective in delaying some of the shipments. Early on (Drew knows the specifics) due to pressure from PMR protesters, a ship did depart from the Port without a complete transfer of cargo from the quay. I think that was in 2004.

PMR has been effective in raising the issue and injecting the problem of unnecessary war into the public consciousness. Obviously, the establishment media is unfriendly to the purpose of questioning the government.

Even when there is abundant evidence that members of our government's highest office have committed gravely criminal acts - all the way up to the level of pre-meditated aggression - the prevailing mainstream media establishment would prefer to beat up on a modest group of protesters. Instead of questioning the President's rhetoric (and inconsistencies and apparent lies and deception therein) the established mainstream media would rather portray protesters as a people who are bent on disruption and havoc.

The protesters aren't bent on havoc and disruption. The truth of the matter is that protesters intend to do good. Through my involvement in the PMR movement, I intend to stop unnecessary war. War is costing the lives of so many people, Americans and Iraqis (people of Aghanistan, et al.).

George Bush lied about the threat from Iraq.

Our government, under the lies of Bush Administration members, attacked Iraq - resulting in the death and suffering of millions of people.

We the People have the power to make it stop. The people have the power. I do not want public institutions - public institutions that are of, by and for the people - (like Ports and Police Departments) to play accomplice to aggression.

PMR has been effective in some ways. But you're right Laurian, there is a long way to go, and PMR could be much more effective than it currently is.

PMR has amazing potential. There is the potential to stop a decades long rush into war over global dominance. There is a potential to save millions of lives.

The question is, how can PMR be truly and ultimately effective? What will it take?

Rolling the eyes yet again

Submitted by DrewHendricks on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 12:28pm.

How would stopping the shipment of military material through Olympia's Port be an INtangible? That's our original goal, and so far we have made measurable progress toward that goal (I'm no statistician, so I could not tell you how many orders of magnitude, but from 4 ships in 5 months in (2004) to one ship in 25 months (7/2006-8/2008) is pretty awesome progress). Is the war over? Heck no, we still have a long way to go there. (Thanks for all your help and support, by the way)

I could go "after you personally" but then that would be stealing YOUR tactics, would it not? Why don't you see that all I give you is REFLECTION of your own snippyness?

I'd like you to organize these people "alienated" from PMR into some kind of activity which also helps stop the war. So let's hear about your ideas, instead of hearing you tell us what to do with our bodies. OK? That's why my nervous system ends at my skin, and yours ends at YOUR skin. It's a hint from G_d.

BTW, we can support our own right to be on a bridge, and you are not "getting" that we're not on the bridge to PROTEST, but to RESIST. The "issue" of 'whose bridge is it' is a red herring.

nervous system

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 08/14/2008 - 12:41pm.

I think that the nervous system extends away from the skin. One of the reasons why it is important for people to be nice to each other and considerate of each other - and to treat each other fairly, be honest, etc.

I tend to agree with you Drew, that PMR has been increasingly effective, and has served to initiate a community discussion about the war and the role of local public infrastructure in enabling the war.

I have issues with the behavior and attitude of some PMR activists. But I think that PMR activists are great people in general, and intensely passionate and committed to the cause (of stopping unjust war and creating a better, more just and peaceful society...).

I am committed to direct action as a tactic. Even further, I am committed to civil resistance as a tactic. But I don't think civil resistance, and certainly not direct action, necessitates a hostile or antagonistic attitude.

It's important to remember that PMR is on the side of truth and justice and peace and equitableness. So if the behavior and attitude and appearance of PMR activists reflects those basic moral and ethical underpinnings, then I think the movement will only be more effective. I am talking about a friendly, calm, smiling, respectful, nonviolent demeanor. I think this would help in terms of Public Relations and in terms of inclusiveness - opening the movement up to the broadest based of critical support - to serve the goal of creating a critical mass of resistance.

Norm,

Submitted by JT on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 2:52pm.

care to explain your comment?

"Kudos to the Tacoma police for being better prepared than Oly PD."

If you are bored with Olyblog, come have some fun at the cool forum spot in Olympia, "olyforums.org/forum"

itchyhitch.blogspot.com

hi-jacking the thread

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 08/07/2008 - 3:22pm.

I am kind of bothered by the hi-jacking of this thread to talk about City Council / Zach / the "bearded lady" controversy...

But, I am curious to know peoples' reasons, (well really just the bearded lady's reasons) for such passionate feelings about Mayor Doug Mah. I assume that the bearded lady has passionate feelings about the Mayor. What did he (the Mayor) do?

What did the mayor do?

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 08/07/2008 - 3:44pm.

I realize the answer to this question may not be easy. But I am curious, and look forward to watching for a response. Feel free to keep it short and simple. Not every nitty-gritty detail is necessary, I am more interested in broad over-arching themes anyway.

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