What is Excessive force?

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What is Excessive force?

Submitted by JT on Fri, 01/25/2008 - 4:50pm.

There is a community meeting coming up tonight. I'm sure there will be all kinds of discussion about alleged excessive force by OPD. So for a framework for that discussion I thought I would post the legal measurement for excessive force.

Excessive Force: Whether force is reasonably necessary or excessive is measured by the force a reasonable and prudent law enforcement officer would use under the same circumstances.

So think it through, did OPD use more force than the reasonable officer standard. The reasonable officer standard is much like the reasonable person standard for Probable Cause. So, simply put if you have a 100 officers, put a bell curve over them and the ones under the bell curve are the reasonable officers. The ones to the left are unreasonably light on force, i.e. failing to act, and the ones to the right of the bell curve are unreasonably harsh with force.

So then look at what OPD did at the Port in comparison with LE industry standards with respect to crowd/riot control, was OPD outside that standard?

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No.

Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 01/25/2008 - 4:53pm.

No.

Thank you.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 01/25/2008 - 4:58pm.

I guess we can all just go home now and watch American Gladiators.

Nice to have you on the right side

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 01/25/2008 - 5:11pm.

;)

I'm surprised to hear you

Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 01/25/2008 - 5:26pm.

I'm surprised to hear you watch American Gladiators! =)

Here was the question I answered with that 'No':

So then look at what OPD did at the Port in comparison with LE industry standards with respect to crowd/riot control, was OPD outside that standard?

I can agree there may be an instance or two where there is room for improvement within the OPD if for no other reason than PR. Ideally you'd satisfy your complaintant but I'm not sure how much the OPD is going to bend (should they?) here without it being forced upon them. Outside of those incidents I'm quite happy with OPD's response.

2 min vid: Bill Hicks

Submitted by PeaceCompass on Sat, 01/26/2008 - 2:23pm.

2 min vid: Bill Hicks Mentions American Gladiators

Not every circumstance at the Port Protest was the same

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 01/25/2008 - 5:10pm.

My answer would depend on the specific circumstances. In some circumstances (I've described them ad nasuseum) I think excessive force may have been used...at least I think some actions merit civil action so a judge can decide.

You'll forgive me JT

Submitted by security_six on Sat, 01/26/2008 - 9:33pm.

But a goofy answer has been stuck in my head ever since you posed the question "What is excessive force?" A: "Using a .50 BMG when a 5.56 NATO would do the trick." Sorry couldn't hold it in any longer :-)

Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not.

:-)

Submitted by JT on Sun, 01/27/2008 - 5:49am.

n/t

“America passes the critical gate test. Open the gate and see where people go – in or out. This is still the country people flock to.” George Will

For the record.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 01/27/2008 - 1:45am.

I moderated this conversation and purposefully kept it away from the actions of the police. The reason being, that neither the police nor City sent a representative. Someone from the city called me prior to the event and explained that while they thought the conversation was a good idea, that they wanted to wait until some of the legal matters cleared up before they would take part. They also assured me that they were indeed interested in taking part in this conversation down the road. I chose to steer the conversation away from OPD actions because without OPD presence, no real ground could possibly be made in that setting. We talked about community responsibility, we talked about different perspectives from the different sides of the issue, and a few other topics. The event was fairly well attended for such short notice, and there was even "pro-war" representation. It was good conversation, in my opinion.

How about a Thomas Merton quote?

Submitted by Mike on Sun, 01/27/2008 - 8:57am.

May God prevent us from becoming 'right-thinking men' -- that is to say, men who agree perfectly with their own police."

Thomas Merton (1915-1968)

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