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Submitted by wildleaf on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 6:08pm.

(This was something I wrote in December for the Evergreen listserve. It was in response to an e-mail by someone who was harassed by the police after a jay walking ticket. I thought it might give some background and depth to my claim that the riot has historical roots.)

We are all oppressed not criminals. (December 1, 2007)

Did you know that the US has the most prisoners of any country? 2,078,570 to be exact, with a total US population of 303,321,825. Doing complex math, that equates to one in every 146 people are in jail in this country. That is more prisoners than any country and also the highest percentage of people in jail. For example our mortal enemy Iran has 163,526 prisoners and 71,208,000 for their total population. Again using complex math, I arrive at one prisoner for every 435 people. The closest to the US proportionately is Russia with 846,967 prisoners and 142,499,000 population for one prisoner for every 168 people. China is second for the total number of prisoners with 1,549,000 but with a population of 1,322,245,331 their proportion drops to one in every 854. Of course these numbers aren't exact (are we counting Guantanamo, or secret CIA jails?) but they shouldn't be to far off.
 
Our court system is totally corrupt. It's not corrupt in the bribery and paying off of cops kind of way, although it is in that way more than most people imagine, but in the fact that it is a legalized system set up to oppress the poor. Sure rich people on the rarest of occasion get in trouble, but they have lawyers who handle everything and get lesser charges, fines and prison terms. It equates roughly to the unjust nature of a flat tax.
 
What I mean is the value of the penalty for the same "crime" committed by a rich person and a poor person varies greatly. For example, a college student jaywalks and gets a $100 ticket, let's say that student is a lucky person in Olympia and actually has a job washing dishes and makes around $8 per hour. Now let's say that a lawyer from Seattle gets a $100 jaywalking ticket (not that the police would do that to a lawyer). The average median hourly wage for a lawyer in Seattle is $72.88. So the value of the penalty for the student is 12.5 hours of work and for the lawyer it is 1.4. The lawyer passes the ticket to the secretary and says "write a check and mail this off please" and forgets about it. The student has no secretary, has no time because of work at night and school during the day, and has no money to pay the fine. The penalty for them is nine times more in adjusted cost then the penalty for the lawyer for the exact same ticket and if you factor in the hassle to try and contest the stupid thing, which is more difficult for the student, then the cost goes up as it potentially goes down. Factoring in the time value, travel costs, lost of work time, court fees, the potentially reduced ticket costs, (not to forget the powerlessness, humiliation and forced submission to beg over something ridiculous), the punitative value remains high. If the lawyer was charged $900 for jaywalking I think he or she would shit a brick and cry injustice but they don't comprehend that it is proportionately what the minimum wage worker is charged.
 
We are taught in this culture to cooperate with oppression. It's not the student's fault that the police and court system profiles and preys on the poor to make the poor submissive and to make themselves rich. What I would suggest is to be as difficult as possible with the police and courts during those few and specific times they are profiling and being repressive because they might learn that we aren't easy victims anymore. If you refuse to sign the ticket in front of them or repeat everything the officer says or play some other game with them then it'll be fun for you and annoying to them. It might even provoke them into making a mistake that you can benefit from, like punching you in the face. Remember, there is a difference between being difficult, being disrespectful, and being criminal and I am advocating being difficult only. Probably you'll just get in bigger trouble, but when that happens do the next best thing, don't show up in court or be extremely difficult in court. Sure it'll stick around and cause you trouble in the future but if you ignore those troubles, then good for you. Eventually that jaywalking ticket might mean 10 days in jail and that will be a bummer but you can laugh the whole time and think of ways to be annoying to the oppressors while you are there. Oh, and are you seriously worried about your permanent record? What is this high school? It's not like you can afford to buy a house here anyway, and any job that would look down on your jaywalking ticket or your trespassing because of a protest ticket is a job you don't want. In fact those types of unpaid tickets should be badges of honour for any progressive person, brag about them, write about them, convince others of the problems with our criminal justice system.
 
If you commit a bad crime, violence against senior citizens, women, or children for example, then you deserve what you get, and should accept your fate because you suck, or you sucked for a moment. You might get nailed with a stupidly long sentence that is over the top and you can argue for what you, your community and your victim would consider fair, but face the bad times.
 
Please don't always be difficult with cops and courts. You also should reward cops when they are helpful, like when a cop breaks up a fight or helps you get into your car when you are locked out. Thank them sincerely; bring them a box of doughnuts the next day. Be especially respectful and mourn if they die in service. They are humans and part of a community, dehumanizing others works both ways and ultimately the better you know each other the more civil your relationship, a cop you give doughnuts to is less likely to beat and humiliate you. This is not hypocritical, we are dynamic people, and we can respect and stand up to the police at the same time. They think they are doing their jobs when they oppress you and at the end of the day when that cop hangs up her or his hat after electrocuting protesters of the war, he or she might complain to their significant other that they hate their job. You might even go and get a beer with them afterwards and make jokes and complain about the system and discuss your dreams for change. The cop might even be rooting for us to change the system to make it so the cop no longer has to be shitty anymore and instead just be a hero. Or maybe that individual cop is a racist sociopath who likes beating and humiliating people, who knows?
 
I don't know the details of what happened, but I won't play blame the victim. I just know that it sounds like profiling, needless wasted tax money and harassment. Jay walking tickets and other similar little petty tickets are around so that cops can have a reason to harass anyone they want. I'm in Ecuador right now ( 7,716 prisoners 13,341,000 people for a ratio of one per 1,729) there are cops on every other corner with shotguns, walls with glass shards on top surrounding every house. It is a different situation for sure and violent crime is something you don't have to worry about, the people aren't violent. Of course the class division between rich and poor is unimaginable. Minimum wage is around $170 per month and yet there are billionaires nearly as wealthy as Gates. The cops are here for two reasons to calm the poor and protect rich people's property. It is obvious here that preserving unfair power structures is the name of the game. Of course because 65% of the people are poor the police are generally kinder and more respectful because they themselves are barely not poor and the poor are a large block of people you don't want mad at you. The cops don't make their money off busting people so there is little incentive to do so. And ultimately if the poor revolted, which they have done many times, I think most of these officers would shoulder their arms.
 
Preserving power structures in the US should not be the duty of the cops but it is their main one. I think that if we want to prevent the harassment of people by cops we have to tell them to stop and we have to tell them forcefully. If every time a cop pepper sprayed a protester we had five others stepping forward to stop them they would start thinking twice about what they do. If every time a kid gets targeted with some bullshit we all came over and told the cop to move along they would start to move along eventually.  We'll take some licks but maybe we would give a few of our own. Eventually with solidarity, defiance and education we might one day even reverse the direction that the cops work in. Maybe one day if a rich person got their BMW stolen the police would just ask why they owned such an expensive car and if the port protesters end up dismantling some striker vehicles the police would just say that it isn't their responsibility to protect the federal government.

»

Two things I see here...

First off the issue of a fine to a person making minimum wage vs someone who makes more makes sense, however I'm not sure the courts are capable of handling that argument.  Until something gets enshrined in law that a fine is based on a person's ability to pay not a flat rate nothing will change.

I want to pick this statement apart.  My responses are in italics.

Maybe one day if a rich person got their BMW stolen the police would just ask why they owned such an expensive car

You expect the government to pass judgement on someone because they own a particular item?  If my laptop is stolen by your standards I may get questioned on why I had to have a computer with higher end features than other computers.  If the outboard on my dinghy was stolen should I have to answer why I had a rare vintage engine?  This is the kind of mindset of punishing people simply because they posess something of greater value than is deemed necessary that really grinds my gears.  Anyone who can have a luxury item should be able to without having to justify it to anyone.

and if the port protesters end up dismantling some striker vehicles the police would just say that it isn't their responsibility to protect the federal government.

It is not the police's responsibility to protect the Federal Government per se, but it is their job to maintain public order.  Public order was being violated during the protests and was restored.

Let me ask you something about police and police response in general.  I have the habit of openly wearing my sidearm in public.  Very legal, and very carefully protected by law and courts in this state.   OPD has hassled me twice over it, once with an officer having his own weapon out while I was drinking tea.  PM me for greater details if you want.  The first time I was searched and frisked in a very public place.

Now I don't have these same problems anywhere else in Washington.  The harrassment is purely a cultural thing within some of the OPD by officers who do not understand the law despite having had it explained to them.

What would you do?  I very well could claim all manner of imagined slights by OPD, and join the same groups of people who openly despise them for any sort of slight.  

Couple of weeks ago I had dinner with a cop.  I have worked my issue from within by complaints and following up with education.  Yes I have a lawyer, but that is because I am preparing for the possibility of a third event, and also to take steps to show OPD administration that I am firmly set on my position and the law supports it.  A final warning if you will before I have to sue.  

What would you do in my shoes?  Law abiding citizen, lawfully carrying a weapon, repeated problems with OPD? 

By your standards  would I be correct in destroying police property?  Rioting?  Demanding an end to  the OPD? 

 

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

»

S6,

I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but I think you completely ignored the important parts of what wildleaf wrote, and it seems like you did it just so that you could mention that you wear a gun and the police harassed you for it. I don't think your "struggle" is equal to what wildleaf is talking about. Poor people are not a protected class, gun owners are.

I didn't hear anywhere in wildleaf's post that they advocate rioting or destroying property. I did hear a clear call for people to stand up for themselves.

image
»

Hardly

 People talk about gettng hassled and harassed by cops.  I simply point out I have as well and for a rather serious looking subject and despite that experience I don't have the same hatred towards cops and authority.  Okay I've yacked a bit more about it today than usual, sorry.  I've been doing some paperwork and research so it sticks in my head.  I get a bit one track minded sometimes.

Poor people in fact a protected class I believe.  They are as protected as anyone else.  I guess first you have to convince me of this great class struggle. 

I did my taxes and made a hell of a lot less this last year than I thought.  $19k   So bring me over to this poor people's struggle, and convince me that I am in an oppressed class.

Funny thing BTW, I am listening to Nirvana "Come as you are" right now....  Interesting lyrics.  

How about I quit refereing to my "struggles" as such, and simply point out that I have had a cop pull a gun on me while I was breaking no laws and leave it at that.  The point I keep trying to make is I have just as much reason to hate authority and yet I don't.  I'm poor and the cops keep targeting me for actions I take.  Sell me on class struggle.  I'll be a great convert for your cause I'm sure. 

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

»

The difference is, you have the law on your side,

and it's a touchy issue politically that most cops agree with you on.

For the record, there is no law that makes it illegal to discriminate against a person for being poor or homeless. That means they are not a protected class, unlike guns owners.

image
»

It's called

The 14th amendment.

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Equal protection and all that jazz.

Oh, go ask some random OPD cops about open carry and see what they say.  You'll get it's cool to carry a weapon for self defense, but don't OC.  It's a Bad Thing. 

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

»

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

If a houseless person applies for a job, or an apartment, they can be refused for no real reason, the employer or landlord can legally say, "I don't hire/rent to homeless people, and that's that."

image
»

Then bring suit...

 Don't know what to say.  Washington is an "at will state" for employment so employers really only have to follow fedral discrimination laws.  A property owner can refuse to rent based on all manner of criterea.  Rental history and credit is one of them.  Would you want to rent something very valuable to someone who exhibited a poor history of paying bills or breaking leases?  Not saying it's right, but even if a person demonstrated income, but had terrible credit or no references what do you do?  Do you pass a law demanding a place be rented out to anyone who comes up with first and last?  Or is coming up with last even too much?  Personally I would like to see some low income housing built that would accept people with first months rent and enable them to build up rental history and references. 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

»

That would be nice.

image
»

Which would be nice?

 

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

»

More housing.

image
»

Anyone can be refused for no real reason.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

Mr. Richards

Perhaps you should re-read S6's comment and note the bit in italics, because that is where S6 responded directly to Wildleafs missive. I don't think that it is reasonable to claim that he ignored what was being said. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

Oh I read it.

And afterward I felt like he ignored some of wildleaf's main points. Re-reading it won't change that.

image
»

I stopped reading after

"I want to pick this statement apart."

Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
»

Ah...So are you suggesting

Ah...

So are you suggesting we get our population "in line" similar to what Iran, China and Russia have done? I would think it's better - regardless of the system - for people to have an opportunity in a legal system than to (literally) be carted off in the middle of the night, no?

You seem to be making a case that the U.S. should emulate these countries. It would have been more effective to compare our incarceration rate to Western Europe.

If every time a cop pepper sprayed a protester we had five others stepping forward to stop them they would start thinking twice about what they do.

You're kidding, right? I am now - without a doubt - convinced that people want a "war" in the street. You think a cop is going to "think twice" about what they do? They're going to be on a radio so fast your head is going to spin and it's going to end up pretty ugly, depending on how far those "five others" felt they needed to go to stop a law enforcement officer from using pepper spray on somebody.

Maybe one day if a rich person got their BMW stolen the police would just ask why they owned such an expensive car

Was that you holding the "Fight the Rich, Not their Wars" sign at the Port?

»

I'll be right there fighting

Alongside the cops if this twisted fantasy of war in the streets happens.

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

»

You can be my backup any day S6!!

n/t

No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral environmental benefits.  Climate change provides the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world ever.Christine Stewart (the real basis for the AGW scare)

»

Western Europe is indeed a better comparison

We look even worse:



Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes

»

I knew we would look worse,

I knew we would look worse, but I still think it's better to make a comparison to other Western nations over Russia, China and Iran.

When you make a comparison to the latter, you're suggesting we use their techniques to achieve the goal.

I wonder - if you removed non-violent drug offenses from the U.S. figure - where would we stand on the chart?

»

Yes. You are right.

But I think the idea behind those other compaisons is that we are even "worse" than those repressive countries in terms of putting our citizens in prisons.

Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
»

Yet sadly, it is so easily fixed

nt
»

Sweet!

Nice graph! Wish I had found that when I was digging through the numbers.

Kill cars before they kill you!

The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com

»

I think Guglielmo, The Guru of Graphs

 Sits cross legged on a cushion chanting numbers and causes them to form on his computer by altering cosmic forces and reality.  :-)

 

"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown

 

»

We're Number One!

in incarceration, and the racial breakdown of the incarcerated breaks down to what? 

And folks will ask to see evidence of racial profiling, racial bias in criminal justice systems. There it is, the numbers tell the story.   

»

I believe the numbers were asked for the LOCAL PD Mike

You are spinning.

On a side note, I hope that no innocent people are in prison. Whatever their color may be though, if they committed the crime, I don't feel sorry for them being in prison.

»

I wonder if we looked at arrests and race for Thurston County

if we would see anything unusual.  I wasn't spinning, just kind of missed the local angle. 

Anybody got time and/or means to pull stats on arrests and race for Thurston County or the local pds? Let's just look at the numbers if we can and see if anything jumps out. 

»

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