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Submitted by Burr on Wed, 06/11/2008 - 7:40am.
Johnson, Norman J., Washington's Audacious State Capitol and Its Builders. Seattle: University of Washington Press, 1988: 35-37
As you can see, these images clearly show that both designers assumed that the isthmus would be built-out. I say assumed because the book clearly states that the isthmus was not part of the scope of the campus design project - and this was true even for the Olmstead's project, which was meant to be only landscape design in scope. So, in all fairness, I do not think this completely answers the question of exactly how the designers would have designed the isthmus; it just shows that they did not assume it would be a park - they assumed it would be built out. In fact, the Olmstead rendering shows a diagonal park corridor between the campus and the edge of the core of downtown (today's Legion and Capitol, perhaps?), as well as a narrow view corridor through the built-out isthmus, similar to OLY 2012’s vision, I think. It was noted by Johnson, however, that this proposal was deemed unfeasible by the state campus commission because it would have been too costly for the state to buy the land from the private sector that would have made up the corridors. (I think we all need to keep that practical reality in mind when debating what to do with the isthmus - OLY 2012 included). Lastly, and again in the interest of intellectual honesty, there is virtually no question that both Wilder & White and the Olmsteads appreciated the views to the North of the campus. Johnson points out that the views to the north drove a lot of the debate about the campus design and in particular, where to build the Perhaps the designers didn't give much thought to the isthmus? I think it is fair to conclude that they didn't envision it being all park space. But it is probably also fair to assume that an isthmus populated with commercial buildings of the style and scale common in 1911 probably wasn't going to be much of a factor in their design considerations anyway. Would they have been disappointed to see the
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Great Research!
Submitted by Just another voice on Wed, 06/11/2008 - 9:00am.But I am Just Another Voice
Important notes
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Wed, 06/11/2008 - 9:36am.Wilder and White and Olmstead had drastically different visions for the campus, neither of which were every carried out. Elements did carry forward, but the immediate end result of the 1912-20 planning process was simply the construction of the main buildings on the campus.
The "Wilder and White" vision was used as an excuse to get rid of Little Hollywood and the commercial use of what is now Capitol Lake to make way for the 5th Ave impoundment, but "the vision" is just that, a vision.
What Wilder, White and Olmstead envisioned for the isthmus was probably what they assume (or were told) the city fathers at the time wanted.
So, its probably better to ask, what would Doc Carolyn had done?
Thanks Burr
Submitted by stevenl on Thu, 06/12/2008 - 9:38pm.Nice work and very fair report. One thing to consider, I don't think the Capitol Campus designers imagined high-rises on the scale we have become used to today. They lived in a more pastoral world. Plus the isthmus was not as filled in yet.
And in a bit of irony, Olympia was so named due to its view of the Olympic Mountains.
I agree...
Submitted by Burr on Fri, 06/13/2008 - 2:27pm.I don't think they would have imagined high rises either. But on the same token, they probably couldn't have imagined the extent to which the automobile has become a necessary part of our existence. In this sense, I think that the designers would have had a hard time envisioning our current urban landscape filled with surface parking lots (the pink areas of this map are our city's surface parking lots).
Putting the concept of a pedestrian-only downtown aside (as much as I like the idea), what would you rather have: higher buildings or surface parking lots? In addition to your preference in urban design, climate change and our community's carbon footprint is probably an important thing to take into consideration with regard to this choice as well - there is a vast difference between the two on a per-capita basis.
Why
Submitted by stevenl on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 4:23am.must we put the concept of a pedestrian-only downtown aside? What is the political problem with that?
Use the isthmus as a parking lot and make the downtown core ped-only. The view will be saved, precious capitalistic consumers will have a free place to park, and one of Oly's best tourist views will be preserved.
Bring back streetcars coming from park-and-ride lots?
Brainstorm with me. Make it fun.
cross town traffic
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 5:39am.The quickest way across town, even for me in the SE, is through downtown. Its even more so for folks living in the NE.
I could duck down through watershed park and take I-5 to the westside, but then I'd have to backtrack through Cooper Point and Black Lake, the worst intersection in town already.
State and Fourth are main arterials through town, you can't shut them down without replacing them.
Naturally
Submitted by stevenl on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 5:55am.You'd have to keep the main arterials which are at present State & 4th. But since is this just brainstorming I'll make some radical suggestions.
I used to drive a taxicab in Burlington, Vermont, a city about the size of Oly. The main drag, their equivalent to our Capitol Way, was made ped-only in the business district. Just for the sake of discussion, I'll propose we shut down portions of 5th, Capitol, and Washington. Shove all the parking to the isthmus and provide funky streetcar shuttle service that tourists will eat up.
What do you think?
but
Submitted by enpen on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 5:56am.Expediency of traffic does not equate with Quality of a city. When San Francisco decided not to rebuild its viaduct after the World Series earthquake there was a lot of outcry about cutting off people's commuting access. The aftermath has been the revitalization of a part of the city that was almost dead as people moved back to escape the traffic. When ease is compromised most people are resilient and immediately set out anew to find an easier way of doing things.
Seriously, if Olympia really wants to see its downtown tourist base soar, then a carless downtown deserves serious consideration. Nothing replaces novelty in the eyes of consumers.
"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe
I've got a great
Submitted by security_six on Thu, 06/12/2008 - 9:50pm.View of the Olympics.... :-p
OK
Submitted by stevenl on Thu, 06/12/2008 - 10:40pm.I live on a boat
Submitted by security_six on Thu, 06/12/2008 - 10:55pm.Meant to be a joke. High rises don't bug me too much.
That said I think there is nothing wrong with reasonable height buildings near the lake. Granted there is a great view from Bayview will drinking tea, but OTOH, there are empty buildings and parking lots with grass growing in them. Since the city is not inclined to make the area into a park, why not build housing there? I only would insist that 25% be designated "low income" housing.
Reasonable height
Submitted by stevenl on Thu, 06/12/2008 - 11:12pm.Reasonable height being ... what?
Do you have enough faith in the corporate world to expect that a quarter of the space would be devoted to low income if a profit is to be made?
well,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 06/12/2008 - 11:16pm.You mean...
Submitted by enpen on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 5:59am.Olympia could use its negotiating leverage to help its people? Oh my god, stop the internets, somebody tell Oly2012!
"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe
5, maybe 6 stories
Submitted by security_six on Thu, 06/12/2008 - 11:16pm.I have reasonable faith that if a certain percentage of low income housing is mandated as part of the permitting process that it will be built.
If the builders want special treatment they need to give something back.
The best way to get low income housing is to require it as part of the permit process.
Low Income Condos? When Pigs Fly
Submitted by Laurian on Fri, 06/13/2008 - 4:18am.Norman J. Johnson is coming to Olympia!
Submitted by jlw on Fri, 07/25/2008 - 5:33pm.Mr. Johnston! By Coincidence
Submitted by stevenl on Fri, 07/25/2008 - 6:03pm.I'm reading Washington's Audacious State Capitol and Its Builders by Norman J. Johnston right now. Not due to the rezone you Olympians are discussing, but because of Gov. Hartley's role in the construction and the climate of government in 1928 (the Ungovernor period I'm working on).
Johnston's book is well worth a trip to the library. It will be very interesting to hear what he thinks about the rezone. Johnston's father was a construction supervisor of the Legislative Building (Or, pronounced "Ledge" Building by those who dwell up there) and Norman himself while a child ran around the place while it was going up. He grew up to become a professor (now retired) in the College of Architecture and Urban Planning at the UW.
Strange...
Submitted by jlw on Fri, 07/25/2008 - 6:14pm.