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    Creative Commons License
 
Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 4:44pm.

For your edification. A example of schools running amuck.

SAMPSON COUNTY, N.C. – On the sixth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks, students at one high school were not allowed to wear clothes with an American flag.


Under a new school rule, students at Hobbton High School are not allowed to wear items with flags, from any country, including the United States.
 
The new rule stems from a controversy over students wearing shirts bearing flags of other countries.
 
Gayle Langston said her daughter, Jessica, was told to remove her Stars and Stripes t-shirt.
 
“Today she wanted to wear her shirt, and I had to tell her no,” said Langston. “She didn't like it at all because I knew it would get her in trouble. Of all days, 9/11, she could not wear her American Flag shirt.”

There is only a little bit more in the story here. Do you think the people responsible for this are using their heads in preventing demonstrations of patriotism on September 11th?

C.

»

I have a big problem with

I have a big problem with nationalism and the "patriotism" that sprang up after 9/11/01, but that's a whole other conversation that I'm not trying to start.

This is just dumb. This is what government and bureaucracy brings us, this is like banning bridges to prevent suicides.

I hold a stone in my hand

»

I think they are upholding a generally stupid rule

Let kids where flags of any nation as long as it is not disruptive. The "disruptive" part is the problem because there is always some yahoo who will want to where his baseball cap with a confederate flag.
»

YEEEEHHHAAAAAW!!! 'Mare-cuh.

YEEEEHHHAAAAAW!!! 'Mare-cuh.
»

or - Odin forbid - a kid

or - Odin forbid - a kid wants to wear a shirt with a French flag on it. Think of how they'd be treated, especially in the south, that is if they know what the French flag looks like.

I hold a stone in my hand

»

Oh come on, Guglielmo...it's

Oh come on, Guglielmo...it's only about celebrating Southern heritage, right?
»

Yeah,

I really should be more tolerant.
»

Or the Dukes of Hazzard. Let

Or the Dukes of Hazzard. Let us not forget about the great General Lee...not the General version, but the Charger.
»

Personally...

I have no problem banning the Confederate flag. It is as much a symbol of hate stupidity and intimidation as the Nazi flag.  Not to mention wearing hats in doors.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

»

All in the context

I don't wear my hat many places, but if you are one of those stiff's that gets your knickers in a knot and wants to come up to me and tell me not to where my hat indoors, let's just say the language that comes out of my mouth is FAR more offensive than my hat at that point.
»

Interesting...

How nice of you to communicate a threat to 'curse me out' if I were to suggest that you demonstrate some courtesy.  Manners and polite behavior deomstrate that you are aware of others and their feelings, and it is a obvious way to show that you think of others in civilized society. 

I would not tell you to remove your hat any where but in my home. My children do not wear hats much, but that is a rule I have in my home.  When someone comes to my home I will go out of my way to demonstrate courtesy and manners, to make them feel welcome and comfortable. But that is just me, all stiff and in a twist.

C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

»

luckily, the odds of me

luckily, the odds of me being in your home are pretty slim to none. As to my "threat" well if you aren't going to tell me to take it off when I'm out in public then I suppose it's not really a threat then is it. Again, don't get your knickers so knotted up. If it doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't.
»

No Norm...

No Norm is was a threat and it was childish of you. It was disrespectful and you know it. Do not try to put your lack of manners, your anger, or your denial on me. If someone threatens to curse you to your face, it is a threat whether you will actually meet them or not.

C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

»

Everything seems to be an

Everything seems to be an argument with you. I gave you my thought on the subject, you can read that however you wish.
»

Wow thanks...

I read it for what it was. Not much to argue about really. I just don't see why you should be allowed to say it was something other than what it was, namely a threat. But thanks for your permission to interpret your words strictly for what they were.

C.  

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

»

You are very welcome, Sir!

I had contemplated not responding, but I wanted to make sure that you knew I had some manners. Have a wonderful day :)
»

Classy. For what it's

Classy. 

For what it's worth, my husby does not allow hats to be worn in the classroom.  We also don't let our sons wear their hats indoors.

"Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing."

»

Good for you!

My wife used to be a school teacher years ago, but did not permit hats in her classes either. 

One sad fact about our society is that is has to varying degrees become a culture of disrespect. From television wrestling and spitting to foul language (of which I am guilty) there is just a lack of respect for others. It makes me sad. 

C.  

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

»

Why? I was within a group of

Why? I was within a group of boys that decided to see how many hats we could have confiscated throughout the school year out of protest for the "no hat" policy within the school. When asked why we couldn't wear them, we were told, "It's disrespectful" when asked why it's disrespectful we were told, "It just is" so ask your hubby sometime, I'd love a good answer, I've always been told it was an old church rule, but if we don't go to church why does it apply?
»

Oh, Norm...

Removing your hat is an act of respect, like extending your hand to someone you've just met. Withdrawing your hand (or failing to remove your hat) is therefore disrepectful. Fortunatly for you, most people no longer recognize these gestures.
»

Yep

outdated. Shaking hands began as a way of knights showing they were unarmed, correct? Removing/tipping the hats fell back onto knights lifting their visor no? Why are we hanging onto these silly old traditions? What's wrong with a wave or a nod vs shaking a hand?
»

There is nothing at all wrong with a wave or a nod

I just feel good when I see a kid take off his hat when talking to an elder or an old man removes his hat when a hearse drives by. I just miss it I guess, the evidence that something decent was passed from one generation to the next. I also miss the days when people used to spit in the gutter instead of the middle of the sidewalk.
»

I miss the days when boys

I miss the days when boys wore their jeans around their waist and girls kept their underwear hidden. The baseball cap is barely a blip on my radar at this point. Part of my generation, and the one below us, could easily be called "Generation Crack"
»

I'm sure my husband and I do

I'm sure my husband and I do many many things that would seem "outdated" to you.  It works for us. 

"Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing."

»

I'm sure you do. That still

I'm sure you do. That still doesn't explain the reasoning behind "no hats" in school. Maybe he doesn't have a reason, it doesn't really matter because I'm no longer in school. This is mostly for my own curiosity dating back to childhood.
»

I think you are trying to

I think you are trying to find an answer that I'm not going to have for you. It really just is a tradition of respect that is part of what he strongly believes in. "Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing."
»

Probably right

I thought maybe there was a concrete reason there. My old high school (out in the sticks) said it was because they didn't want "gangs" to infiltrate the school.....
»

It is a simple errosion of tact, manners and courtesy.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

»

Yeah, when did people stop knowing how to wear their hats?!

There's an old guy who hangs out in the Pantheon in Rome who just walks around and tells stupid Americans to take off their hats.  Here are some rules for you Norm (I really like the "virtuous woman" rule): 1.Lifting or tipping it, which you generally do for strangers.
2.Taking it off, which you generally do for friends (or in some cases, as a sign of patriotism or reverence).
Both are done as a sign of respect toward the other and dignity toward oneself.  Your cigarette, pipe or cigar should always be taken out of your mouth before removing or tipping your hat.


A man takes off his hat:
(1) when he is being introduced to someone, or when saying goodbye to a woman, elder, friend or ;
(2) as a greeting when passing someone he knows, particularly a lady, on the street (In some cases, tipping or lifting a hat and bowing slightly may be used as a substitute for removing a hat, as a passing gesture);
(3) while talking, particularly with a woman, an older man, or a clergyman;
(4) while the National Anthem is being played, or the American Flag is passing;
(5) at a funeral or in the presence of a passing funeral procession,
(6) when speaking to another of a virtuous woman or a dearly departed loved one.

A man tips or lifts his hat:
(1) when walking with a friend who passes a woman only the friend knows;
(2) any time a lady who is a stranger thanks you for some service or assistance;
(3) any time you excuse yourself to a woman stranger, such as if you accidentally disturb or jostle her in a crowd, or when you ask for pardon when passing in a tight space or when forced to walk between two people that are conversing, particularly if one is a woman;
(4) any time a stranger shows courtesy to a woman you are accompanying, such as when a man or woman picks up something she has dropped, or a man opens a door for her or gives her his seat;
(5) when you ask a woman (or an elderly man) for directions.

Indoors, a man should always remove his hat, (particularly in a home, church, courtroom or restaurant) except:
(1) in some public buildings or public places such as railroad stations or post offices;
(2) in the main parlor area of a saloon or general store;
(3) or while seated at the "lunch counter" of a diner or cafe;
(4) in entrance halls and corridors of office buildings, or hotels;
(5) in elevators of public or office buildings, unless a woman is present;
(6) if carrying packages, parcels or bags and both hands are occupied upon entry.
(7) If the man is an actor or performer and the hat is being worn as a part of a costume or performance.

 

 
»

I'm just an old fart....

When I was a child in the 1950s, it was desecretion to wear anything that resembled an American Flag.  When we started doing it in the 1960s, the Conservatives called us "communist hippies".

What happened?

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

»

Don't know...

Even the Army wears the American Flag on the shoulder of the uniform. I don't think it is a desecration and dose not bother me as much as dimwits who post the American flag upside down. 

C.  

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

»

Flag Ettiquette

IMPORTANT DONT'S

It is generally not desirable to fly the flag outdoors when the weather is particularly inclement because exposure to severe winds and rain may damage the flag or the pole on which it is displayed. Never in any way should disrespect be shown the U.S. flag. The U.S. flag should never be dipped into any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are dipped as a mark of honor. The U.S. flag should never be displayed with the union down except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property. The U.S. flag should never touch anything beneath it - ground, floor, water or merchandise. The U.S. flag should never be carried horizontally, but it should always be aloft and free. Always allow the U.S. flag to fall free- never use the U.S. flag as wearing apparel, bedding or drapery, festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds. For draping platforms and decorations in general, use blue, white and red bunting. Always arrange the bunting with the blue above, the white in the middle and the red below. The U.S. flag should never be fastened, displayed, used or stored in any manner which will permit it to be easily torn, soiled or damaged in any way. Never use U.S. flags as a covering or drapes for the ceiling.

* * *

Never place anything on the U.S. flag. The U.S. flag should never have placed upon it, or on any part of it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture or drawing of any nature. Never use the U.S. flag for receiving, holding, carrying or delivering anything. The U.S. flag should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins, boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use or discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown. Never use any part of the U.S. flag as a costume or athletic uniform. A flag patch may be affixed to uniforms of military personnel, firemen, policemen and members of patriotic organizations.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

»

Doesn't it mean *don't wear

Doesn't it mean *don't wear an actual flag* as opposed to *don't wear something with a picture of a flag*?

"Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing."

»

Again....I draw upon my days as a youth...

The interpretation of the 1950s and 1960s was that wearing anything symbolic of the American flag was a desecretion.  Hell, I remember an old military guy in the early 1960s not allowing his family to watch Hogan's Heroes as he said it was a desecretion of the military service.

I think what I'm sharing here, is that customs change.  If you look at pictures from 1968 you'll see only "hippies" with long hair and facial hair.  By 1974, the Conservatives were growing their hair and facial hair.

I can remember in junior high, when girls had to kneel on the floor to prove that their skirts and dresses weren't too short and boys caught with their shirts not tucked in were sent to the principal.

Of course marketing and money have a lot to do with trends.  American flags are made in China.  If someone can make money selling tshirts with the flag on them, well now.....that's AMERICAN!

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

»

I have seen that before....

Having been in the military I knew most of that information. I did not know you were not supposed to put an American flag on a uniform, like baseball or football. I like the bit about the union is not to be upside down except for instances of dire distress or extreme danger to life or property. C. One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell

»

Abby Hoffman

One of the biggest complaints about Abby Hoffman was that he wore a shirt that was an American Flag.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

»

I really don't

get the pants thing at all.
»

This whole taking off your

This whole taking off your hat thing, or any of the flag rules are societal constructs that we adhere to for no reason. I wonder if we're the only country with the "don't let the flag touch the ground" rule, it's pretty dumb, and talk about idol worship. No wonder Jesus hasn't come back yet.

Like Norm said, many of these constructs date back hundreds of years, and have no real bearing on anything. I don't believe it's disrespectful, aren't my feelings valid? I also don't wear hats, so I could really care less.

People need to lighten up, I'm really surprised Norm was the defender of hats here, he is a 70 year old man after all. (Not trying to start a tussle Norm, just trying to have a good chuckle).

I hold a stone in my hand

»

Shutup Rob!

Next time I see you I'm gonna bonk you with my cane!
»

If Norm is 70...

That makes me something like 121.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

»

You don't wear a hat so....

Manners, tact, polite behavior and etiquette should just be tossed out the window? I guess that works if it is all about you...C.   One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.  Thomas Sowell  

 

»

Right

because if we feel hats indoors is a silly defunct rule, we obviously want to toss out all manners, tact and polite behiavor/etiquette. What's with all the huge leaping assumptions?
»

Hmmm...

You're right, I am making huge leaping assumptions because I believe that it is a lack of manners to remove your hat indoors, and to... oh I don't know... makes idle threats and generally be rude. But hey I am just a ridgid conservative. So what do I know?

C.  

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

»

I'm going to keep positive here:

Your last sentence was great. =)
»

What ever makes you feel good, right?

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

»

I'm going to assume that's a

I'm going to assume that's a rhetorical question. I hope your day is going well, Sir! =)
»

I think he's trying to devine

the secret of the fun vent.
»

Some are more secret than

Some are more secret than others, but I won't take that any further.
»

now THAT was funny!

now THAT was funny!
»

I'm not particularly offended by sports teams with

native american names and mascots. But I believe people when they say it bothers them. I've learned not to use my own thick skin to decide what is or is not offensive or important to other people.
»

apples v. oranges

There's such a big difference between improperly symbolizing someone's racial or ethnic heritage and wearing a hat. Those offended by the wearing of hats indoors have no logical reason to be offended, they just decided that they were, and usually it comes up only as a way to control other people. This whole "that's the way it is" argument is total BS and is only used because there is no logic or reason behind the "no hats" ideology.
»

Yep we made it up to control you Rob.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

»

No, you see apples and oranges

Some of us just see round, fist-sized fruit. My point is that it really isn't your call to make. If certain forms of non-verbal communication are important to someone, that's their choice not yours. You are free to repect it or not. I am not for a second suggesting the issues are equally important. I could just as have easily said, some people are offended by foul language and others are not. I don't believe that those who are offended need to justify themselves.
»

yes, and,

I really do see your point, and I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but even the difference between cursing and wearing a hat is vast. I used to know a guy, we'll call him McCloud, he used to annoy the shit out of me. I really didn't like him at all, and he used to wear a lot of really bright orange. Now, years since I've seen him (he's off in NYC singing french children's songs or something) I still kind of have bad associations with that color, should I have the right to make you take your shirt off if it's that color? You really believe that an article of clothing can be offensive, excluding those with offensive images or messages, and that the wearing of said garments should be somehow regulated? When does it end? I'm offended by American Libertarians, can I put them in camps? We'll call them: "Confusion Camps"

I hold a stone in my hand

»

You just want me to take off my shirt

so you can see my fun vent.

Seriously though, I do not think everyone should abide be ye aulde ruelles of hatte wheahring. And I do not think that the lost art of hat wearing is destroying society. However, I do lament the loss of one more margin by which humans communicate with one another, especially if most of what is being communicated is respect and affection. No one ever used a hat gesture to harm someone (except when Skipper slapped Gilligan with his...hat that is).

»

All fun vents aside...

let's not let this thread go to browner pastures, ok?
»

when people stopped wearing

when people stopped wearing hats so much other things spun off of hat tipping, like little half salutes or a wave or a nod of the head or the classic wink-and-the-gun.

»

Don't forget to also make

Don't forget to also make that funny noise in your mouth that I am unable to translate into a real word.  You know...kind of like...kchnk kchnk. 

"Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing."

»

yes

that noise is key, and extra points for "firing" the gun as you make the noise. Even more points for the wink and the double-guns.
»

Oh ya, I'm all about the

Oh ya, I'm all about the double-guns.  Once you go there, there's no going back. 

"Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing."

»

Those who want to hang on to

Those who want to hang on to the old way, who are rigid in their ways, are Conservative. Those who want to evolve, or see things from another side, or are willing to change their mind if informed, or want to change the status quo, are Liberal.

Does that mean Norm's a Liberal with his indoor hat? You hippy ;-)

»

I get labelled a

I get labelled a conservative because I'm not ultraliberal. ie "if you aren't with us you are against us" mentality.
»

facism starts

Facism starts with things such as this and builds in momentum until the absurdity is so blatant no one remembers what we were willing to give up to protect ourselves from who/what the goverment tells us to be afraid of. The Patriot Act continues to be passed time after time; the federal goverment is probably keeping an eye on this and other blogs and now they argue that releasing information on those we may be illegally detaining in Guantonamo would place the nation at risk. We drug test at schools, we have police and guns at schools is it really any wonder the schools authorities decide what students can and can not wear(it used to be pants for girls, then it was jeans, then gang colors.....
»

Nice Strawman argument...

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

»

Tsch..

What is it exactly that makes it a strawman argument?
»

The entire premise is false

"Facism [sic] starts with things such as this and builds in momentum until the absurdity is so blatant no one remembers what we were willing to give up to protect ourselves from who/what the goverment [sic] tells us to be afraid of." People are smarter than this. Because we have social customs of being polite, and having manners does not lead itself to fascism. Because schools have dress codes doesn't make them a militaristic fascist instrument of the government. It is an illogical assertion from the first sentence. She sets up a false argument to knock down with notions of social conventions are outdated and implemented with out logical reason. It is a bogus argument with a bogus implied solution. 
C.  
One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell

»

That's not a strawman argument

Someone makes a strawman when they take your position and restate it in a way that is easily refuted. She didn't do that. She may have stated a proposition that you do not agree with, but it is not illogical in any formal sense. If anyone used a strawman, it was you. Where in the post you quoted did the writer say anything about social customs and manners leading to fascism?
»

Did you read her post?

 Your right I didn't quote the entire comment. Fascism doesn't start with some social custom, and then lead to something evil like fascism. The column sets up a false argument like I said and knocks it down with the "no one remembers what we were willing to give up to protect ourselves from who/what the government tells us to be afraid of." All of this stems from the discussion about manners and etiquette. I don't see what there is to misunderstand except that I was not quite specific enough to include the title of the comment. Manners, customs, tact, etiquette etc. do not always get remembered for how or why they start, but they are generally accepted as social custom, and that doesn't lead to fascism. One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.  Thomas Sowell  

 

»

Do you think you'll ever be

Do you think you'll ever be able to allow people to have opinions that are different than yours without telling them that they're wrong, immoral, or stupid? Not trying to be a jerk, just a question on my mind.

In your opinion, fascism is something completely different than what it is in Nanci's opinion. In my opinion, fascism looks a lot like what America is shaping up to be, with advertising and marketing (propaganda) keeping the people sedated while our government conquers the world by sending our military to destroy things and letting our corporations move in after to "fix it up" again. Whoa, that's way off track.

Enough of the yes/no shit, Tsch, why do hats offend you?

I hold a stone in my hand

»

Ok Rob,

Have I ever told you, you can't have your own opinion? While I disagree with people, who did I call stupid, or immoral as a person? Or did you mean to imply that about me? Have I ever told anyone else they can not have an opinion? Why are you so unnerved by the fact that I disagree with you? Why do you think you get to redefine the term fascism? 

Not taking off your hat indoors demonstrates a lack of politeness, and manners. Is it a huge thing that I run around telling others to remove their hats? No only if they are in military uniform and that has only happened twice in my life since I got out of the military. It is a social custom that shows deference to others and respect for others. That is it. no more no less.  

C.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.  Thomas Sowell  

 

»

You don't have to come out

You don't have to come out and say it outright to make people feel like they can't have their own opinions, or at least can't express them, around you. You seem to exhibit a sense of superiority in your responses that could make people uncomfortable about being on this blog, and that goes against the values of this blog.

As far as me and my relationship to your disagreement with me, don't flatter yourself kiddo.

One day I learned the definition of the word fascism. Since then I've been able to use that word when I feel it applies. In my opinion, our president is a fascist, and capitalism is a slick, easy-to-sell-to-people version of fascism. I see the definition, I see our system, and I make a comparison. I don't redefine anything.

Who gets to decide what is polite? Or what manners are? I think it's impolite for people to tell me what to wear. I think it's impolite for people to try to force their values on me. Doesn't that mean anything to you? It's the same principle right? Do you feel any different now that you know I get offended by those things? If you do, that's great. If you don't, then why not? Do you not care what others think about your actions?

I hold a stone in my hand

»

Riiiiiight.....

I don't stop you from doing anything with your opinion. In fact I prefer you express them out loud and often. As for the "You seem to exhibit a sense of superiority in your responses that could make people uncomfortable about being on this blog, and that goes against the values of this blog." This sounds a lot more like your problem than mine. If you think your opinions should go un-remarked about, perhaps you should say so. "As far as me and my relationship to your disagreement with me, don't flatter yourself kiddo." This is not the first time you have complained about my disagreement with you. It seems dissent is only okay if you are doing it. Flattery? No just stating the obvious. "Who gets to decide what is polite?" Generally society determines what is polite and what is rude. People write books about it, and I would assume study it. Society generally agrees that chewing gum with your mouth open is ill-mannered. Society accepts this concept in general and thus it becomes etiquette. Essentially it is not you or I specifically. "I think it's impolite for people to tell me what to wear." It is not always about you. "I think it's impolite for people to try to force their values on me." Who is forcing manners on you? "Doesn't that mean anything to you?" Yes it says quite a lot to me about you. "Do you feel any different now that you know I get offended by those things?" Different in that I will change my opinion to suit your need to reject some very basic societal conventions of common courtesy? No. Should I 'feel your pain' at having to tolerate such etiquette? "Do you not care what others think about your actions?" I sort of do and I sort of don't. I don't care that you feel put upon by suggesting that people have manners. I don't care that you don't agree that I had the gall to bring it up. Stuff like that, doesn't matter to me. Am I going to act put out when ever you espouse your anarchist propaganda? Of course not. In fact often I enjoy reading what you post, and I don't feel like I can't express myself. Do I try to be polite, forthright, honest, non politically correct, with people? Yes. If I am wrong about something I try to be willing to acknowledge the error, and not repeat it. I am going to shrink away from a political discussion because it unnerves you. Not a chance. I will be straight with you, and try not to be mean for the sake of hurting your feelings. I would never tell you I would curse you out or something like that. Your feelings are your responsibility, not mine. I am not here to make you feel ok about your feelings. C. One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell

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It's a matter of tone.

When a fellow poster suggested, sincerely, that gradual losses of freedom and more regimentation path the road to fascism, you replied with a simplistic and sarcastic "Nice Strawman." There was nothing about the "offending" post that deserved that tone.
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I don't need anyone to make

I don't need anyone to make me feel good about my feelings, if I needed that I sure as hell wouldn't talk to you about it!

Seriously, I respect what you've said in this last post, I come from a similar place. Not everyone is as thick skinned as you or I though, and we DO have a responsibility to their feelings whether we like it or not. If you say something to someone on this blog, or anywhere really, and they silently slink away and stop speaking their mind then you've just destroyed a bit of our community. We need to communicate with people, especially people who don't have the privilege of being white men, on their level or terms. It is our responsibility to go out of our way to make sure everyone is comfortable and safe and listened to in our conversations. These issues, the ones that effect our local community at least, are too important to not listen to everyone.

I hold a stone in my hand

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Come on....

It was not simplistic as I had to explain it twice. I don't want to deny some sarcasm, but I think perhaps you and Rob are being just a little fragile here. Compared to threatening to curse someone to their face, or throw them out of a place, it was certainly not overly harsh. Should I be made to keep my disagreement to my self, and not remark on things that I see as false, misleading, convoluted or dishonest? C.P.S. When is the last time, I wonder you felt you needed to discuss anyone's 'tone' so others felt they could post with out ... disagreement? Not sure that is the right word, but hopefully you get my point.   Outside Rick’s squabble which I assume (hope)  is fairly uncommon.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell

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But let me ask you this...

...don't you find a general difference in tone between, say, the comment threads on the Olympian on the one hand, and OlyBlog on the other? And if you do, why is there a difference? I'd say, people like Rob standing up and saying, "Hey, you're sounding pretty strident there, brother" would be one reason. We keep the peace here by reminding each other when we're not being so careful at communicating.


When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
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Strident...

Strident eh? If only I could be more, soft and cuddly, centrist and moderate... Oh well.   Like I have said before, a moderate is a liberal with publicist tendencies. I don't read that much of the Olympian. It is kind of a crummy newspaper. Not just for its opinions, but because it is a poorly organized paper, and difficult to make good use of. On top of that I don't have that much time to read that as well as the other stuff I like to read. I think you are right, about the acrimony; as far as I have seen that paper is full of it.  Is there a general difference between this blog and the paper? Yes. This blog is better! I like that I can get a feel for what is going on around town to some extent, although not always. Some things don't get covered though.  I have seen anti abortion protests going on down on the corner by Planned Parenthood and then some kids show up to demonstrate support for abortion, peacefully as far as I have seen. There was also the anti-police protest that was not covered. And, (because this is near where I live) there are 'Impeach Bush' zealots on the corners of Black Lake Blvd, and Cooper Point Road. I have been trying to remember to carry my digital camera with me more so I can start posting photos of stuff I see around town. C. One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.  Thomas Sowell  

 

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Yes Tschida - carry that camera!

Some things don't get covered though. I have seen anti abortion protests going on down on the corner by Planned Parenthood and then some kids show up to demonstrate support for abortion, peacefully as far as I have seen. There was also the anti-police protest that was not covered. And, (because this is near where I live) there are 'Impeach Bush' zealots on the corners of Black Lake Blvd, and Cooper Point Road. I have been trying to remember to carry my digital camera with me more so I can start posting photos of stuff I see around town. C.

You got it man, carry that camera, blog about what you see, you are a citizen journalist too. OlyBlog is all of us.

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Cool...

"Around town" photos are always good.
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Difference in tone

I'm seeing evidence of this more and more and in fact will start a thread about it.
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It was simplistic because all you said was

Nice Strawman.

Should I be made to keep my disagreement to my self, and not remark on things that I see as false, misleading, convoluted or dishonest?

Absolutely not. If you disagree with someone, please explain precisely why you do so, but preferably without snide comments or accusations of dishonesty. What I don't understand is what motivates folks to spend so much energy looking for something to disagree with. And I'm not just talking about you, I mean a lot of us. That's why the Daily Olympian comments just make me want to puke. 90% acrimony.

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Just to be clear...

 I did not intend to communicate any kind of an accusation of dishonesty regarding the post Nanci made. I was meaning a more broad statement about posts we see here from time to time. I don't think Nanci was attempting a dishonesty, sorry to imply that I did think that.

C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

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Thanks for the clarification

I see that you were talking broadly and not about that specific post. It's pretty obvious when I look at it now.
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C'mon now, did you seriously

C'mon now, did you seriously feel threatened by that comment? I find it hard to believe that someone who served in the military is having such a problem with that. Maybe you need to walk around town more looking for soldiers who are non-compliant with their headgear.
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Hey, perhaps your potty mouth

could be used as an active denial system.
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Ooooh!

Can I borrow that term for awhile? That just has a smooth sound to it.

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Again to be clear...

I am not threatend by you what so ever. This does not mean that you did not communicate a threat, you did, albeit sophmoric and crass. 

C. 

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

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geez

rub some dirt on it already
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So, it would seem like it

So, it would seem like it shouldn't be an issue. Yet you seem to be latched onto this. Are you offended that I might have a dirty mouth? Or is it just that I might use some dirtier words if someone happend to try and tell me to remove my hat in public? I really want to make sure that you've made peace with this so that we can move on.
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The problem is yours brother.

 You threatend to 'curse me out'. I don't really care about your language unless children are around. You seem to think you don't need to acknowledge that you made this threat but rather imply I am sensitive to foul language. This is not the case. What you are doing is attempting to convolute the issue into something it clearly is not. Feel free to move on at any time, but in doing so perhaps you would stop blaming me for your behavior.

C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

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I don't wear my hat many

I don't wear my hat many places, but if you are one of those stiff's that gets your knickers in a knot and wants to come up to me and tell me not to where my hat indoors, let's just say the language that comes out of my mouth is FAR more offensive than my hat at that point.

 threat n. An expression of an intention to inflict pain, injury, evil, or punishment. An indication of impending danger or harm.

Pain?...nada...injury?...nope....Evil?...nada...punishment?...hardly. An indication of impending danger or harm? Give me a break.

Tschida...it's you.

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What ever makes you feel good.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in. 

Thomas Sowell 

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Oh, good grief

...
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Time to agree to disagree

Okay?
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Agreed

Agreed
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Gug...

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No way...

popcorn fouls the fun vent. It's a well known fact.
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Can't keep score without a scorecard

and you can't enjoy the show without popcorn.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

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Sourpatch kids!

Sourpatch kids!
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I enjoy getting the really

I enjoy getting the really big bag and burning off all my taste buds from the sour-ey goodness.  Oh!  And I found big bags of Cry Babies at the dollar store.  Mmmmmm.

"Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing."

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Yeppers!

My tongue is all scratched up for the next few days. If they didn't have such a high sugar content they might make a good diet food.

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Sourpatch Kids

Now I know who the other person in the world is that eats those damned things....other than my exwife

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

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