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Submitted by noradarno on Mon, 10/08/2007 - 11:22pm.
First: I thought that this was olyblog, about hyper local reporting… Not the complaints forum of The Olympian’s comment forum.


Second: If you have an issue with Olympian, address The Olympian.


Third: The people administering the web-content of The Olympian are employees doing their job, they are human. Don’t reduce your annoying discourse to dehumanizing remarks on how you perceive their character based on your issues with their (being the companies) forum.


This brings me to this point. Because, at this point as an Olyblogger, it begs to be asked; in all seriousness. Because, frankly things like Olyblog exist, because they don’t want to be like the local media…


Who cares what the Olympian "comments" forum is doing? It is a comment section of a newspaper. What ever happened to addressing concerns with editorial content in writing to the paper? Or is it, that some have nothing better to do with their lives, than cause arguments online about trivial issues.


Here’s a suggestion or two:


A. If you see an error in The Olympian, correct it and mail it to them, they have a section in the paper for errors and omissions.


B. If you don’t like the editorial stance of the paper, write a section editor, or the paper’s parent company.


C. If you don’t like what the City of Olympia, the City Council, or any elected official is doing try writing an editorial, that will get published; go to council meetings and voice concerns; or write said official.


Point is the only people who read the comments section of the online edition of the paper are the same type who post on them ad nauseam and start flame wars about unrelated topics.

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Um, I read the online version...

of the comments section of the Olympian, and even though it often inflames me, I've never flamed back. Well, OK, one time in defense of homeless folks who couldn't flame back on their own.

Here's a suggestion for everyone fed up with folks posting about this issue on a free and open blog...

Don't read the posts.

There, problem solved!

Nana ka maka; ho`olohe ka pepeiao; pa`a ka waha.
"Observe with the eyes, listen with the ears, shut the mouth." - thus one learns...

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Well....I suppose the same

Could be said about Olyblog.

If you see something you don't like in Olyblog:

1.  Don't read it.

2.  Address the blogger directly and take your chance that the blogger may engage in conversation in return, which, to my understanding is what blogging is all about.

I would prefer to direct my comments to the moderators, editors and such of the newspaper, but it seems that they can't take that direction.  We've even had a moderator pull a "libel" threat out of an section of the anatomy to attempt to stifle the right to satire and sarcasm in Olyblog, all for the sake of attempting to quell any kind of criticism of the activities at said newspaper.  For a newspaper that is quick to judge and criticize the job performance of others, they find every way to run and hide from someone that has enough knowledge and guts to analyze their performance. Of course, it's often forgotten, as this time, that on many occasions, I've applauded the newspaper and also defended their position and coverage.

I worked in newspapers from 1970 to 1983.  I consulted rural newspapers from 1985 to 1989.  I owned an agency from 1989 to 1999 that focused on print media.  I've shared beverages with the very people I've disagree with earlier in a day.  They've stated their dislike of my position, I've returned favor.  I've only experienced ONE newspaper that attempts to stop people from voicing their opinion and keeping the opinion of others from the public.  The possiblity of corporate media ruining the very freedom that we've celebrated in this country for over 200 years is frightening.

Frankly, the apathy on this issue is more frightening than the activity.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

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I must add...

As the General Manager for a The Elma Chronicle in 1987, I redesigned the newspaper to attempt to give it new life.  It was dying and I was recruited to save it (unfortunately, the owners were not as financially sound as they had said).

Part of my redesign was to create a page called "food, fashion and fun".  In addition to a crossword puzzle, I used wired stories on fashion, a local recipe and a horoscope.

One of the evangelical churches took exception to the horoscope, saying it was occult. From my belief position (better described as lack of belief) I found this ridiculous, yet the community, or at least a part of it was speaking.  The pastor of said church tried to organize a boycott of our advertisers.  I contacted him personally and said he was welcome to do such, or, as a public service, I'd provide him space to editorialize on the issue of horoscopes and occult.  I promised to run his editorial verbatim, without editing.

The article ran, no boycott took place and the subject was over.

If you haven't figured out by now, my issue with The Olympian lies with the whole point of their policy to quell community voices.  I strongly disagree with many voices in the comments, mildly disagree with others and wildly agree with many.  The last thing in the world I would ever suggest is to deny someone the right of their opinion.  It is the very foundation of our way of governing in the United States.

Lastly, if I may suggest, "hyper local reporting" would be incomplete without an honest look at the local media. Disagree as you'd like, but don't mistake my reporting for just a personal complaint.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

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We've had a lot of discussion...

...over the last couple of years (!) about the difference between OlyBlog and the O's comment threads. One thing that I agree with about what noradarno said is that there is a sense in which OlyBlog is its own thing, and only becomes diminished the more it is used as a platform from which to throw stones at the Olympian. Olybloggers constitute a more intentional community, one that encourages communication over conflict, and substance over glib phrases. The O's comment threads are so out of control, I wonder why AL is so fascinated with them. Yeah, he should have the right to express himself there if he wants, but why would anyone want that? Why not create something different?


When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
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Much like Enpen focuses on

Much like Enpen focuses on downtown art, Emmett focuses on the town meetings, and Steven focuses on Oly-TESC History I've seen it as Big AL focusing on Olympian Online-Comments Critique and nothing more.

Just as I do with the others I choose to read or not read based on my interest.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

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It's different.

All the other activities are about building community. I'm not sure what AL is trying to achieve, although I'd genuinely like to know.

I do think there is an opportunity to build something positive by initiating an on-going dialog with the O. (That's why I supported promoting Larry's first few posts.) It doesn't feel like that's what's happening now, though.


When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
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Well, Rick

Opinions vary, but only I know my true motivation and the rest of the community can either accept my explanation or not.  I have no control over those that wish to second guess me.

If Olyblog wants to intiate "on-going dialog" with The Olympian, I'd suggest first that Olyblog not fall prey contrived arguments initiated by moderators for said publication.  Two way dialog never happens when one side dictates terms.

If I thought that  it had as much effect on the Thurston County community, I'd probably write about all sorts of other issues where corporations are clogging the freedom of speech issue.  Fortunately, or unfortunately as either might be, we have but ONE corporation and media to deal with (the News Tribune and Olympian are owned by McClatchy).  I might focus on the Tribune, as I used to work there, but frankly their coverage of local is insignificant, especially since the McClatchy purchase of The Olympian (I do monitor and post on The New Tribune and have not been "banned" there, but mostly stick to national and international as their coverage of South Sound is minimal at best).

One last time, for the record.  I'm blogging on local media and what I presume to be its effect on the Thurston County community.  Should anyone wish to read more into it, they are welcome to presume.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

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Let's be honest here, shall we?

What you've mostly done is blog about how you've been wronged by the Olympian. I don't see that as an issue of broader interest to Thurston County. But I'm really not trying to pick a fight with you, or read your mind. Be that as it may, I'd very much like to see a more comprehensive approach to your posts about the Olympian. I think that would be a great addition to OlyBlog.

We have been having a dialog with the Olympian, in fact. It was partly as a result of input from OlyBlog that the Olympian began to require a verifiable email in order to post, and that they set out more explicit rules for content of posts. I'm hoping that the Olympian will take that one step further, and require contributors to register for an account, where they have to provide real names and addys. This alone would reduce the vitriol by several orders of magnitude.

So, if you're interested in building something of wider significance, let's do it. As I suggested when you first came on, it would be awesome to have someone tracking the overall quality of coverage in the Olympian. That certainly would be about building community.


When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
»

OK, I'll bite...

When I comment on The Olympian's penchant for critiquing public officials, would you call that me talking about how I've been "wronged"?

When I comment on the action taken (or lack thereof) on other commenters, is that just masked complaints for my own cause?

Today's submission - "A perfect example" - I find nothing that outlines me complaining about being wronged.

I wrote one blog for Olyblog, a couple of months ago, where I took exception to a position taken by an Olympian commenter.  That blog turned into a free for all with a couple of Olybloggers turning it into an attack session on Larry and his prior activity with The Olympian, as opposed to a discussion about the statement of the person quoted.

I could go on and on, but I think I made my point.  I, too, don't want to pick a fight, but I would appreciate clarity of the issue.

So, let's move on.  If The Olympian staff is truly looking to Olyblog to improve their approach to internet comments and responses, I'll throw out the first suggestion - stop getting involved in the politics of the thread.  I've mentioned this more than once.  Throw my history out the window and let's talk about "Emma".  A "yo momma" joke is reason for being banned from commenting?  I don't see The Olympian reaching out to their readers on that one.

This is not to disagree with you, Rick, but just for the record, as my blog indicates, The Olympian had a pornographic picture linked to a comment that was up for about 24 hours before someone deleted it (shortly after I published my blog).  Now, I can't for the life of me, figure out how the word "penis" sits on a comment thread on a link for 24 hours without a moderator catching it, unless of course, they are so caught up in the politics of deciding who is going to post what where.  As I said in my personal blog, it was a classic case of minding the nickels and losing dollars. 

All one need do is take a look at yesterday's comments about a disabled child (Yes, I have access to a computer that has an IP that certain people don't know about).  It was the worst load of crap I've seen yet - worse than the comments about two suicides.  If they are seeking a higher level of community conversation, it certainly missed its mark yesterday.

So, in conclusion, I'll take to heart your suggestion to be more comprehensive in my commentary about our local newspaper.  I think it's a fair suggestion.  In return, I'd ask that everyone read what is on the page and not what they think I was saying.  If I'm confusing, let me know.  I'll try to clarify.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

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Cool.

I guess my wish is: Could we spend more time focusing on the quality of the reporting in the Olympian? I think we get side-tracked by the comments (and moderation thereof), which doesn't really get us anywhere on the issues. Comments and links in comments -- is that really part of the paper (especially when they allow such a free-for-all)?


When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
»

Good point

I'm not really going to jump through hoops to get access to the comments anyway.

I think my blog on their editorial today is a step in the direction that you're seeking.

I will admit that it is difficult to illustrate my point on what I feel is the primary hypocrisy (don't criticize us, we are in the criticizing business) without examples of how readers are treated, but I'll be creative.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

»

It's Not Different

Hasn't it always been a personal blog is just that, personal?  To get to Larry's blog you actually have to visit it or hit recent posts.  People are free to click or not click.  This is the same advice I conveyed to Larry a few months ago but was told ignoring it didn't make it go away.

It doesn't muddy up the front page so what's the issue?  The flood you might open by censoring allowable (read: legal) content won't stop, ever.  It may subside, but the waters will rise again, and again, and...

I've actually stopped posting for the most part and to a point, stopped reading altogether (sometimes it's like crack, while I've never tried crack, I hear it's addictive).  In recent weeks it certainly has felt like "yours" as well as other well known posters.  It stopped being fun when the equality wasn't, well, equal.

How Mr. Richard's anarchist posts achieve community I'll never know.  But I know this, I choose NOT to read them.  Especially because they don't come from him but rather "a friend."  I've got a mind like a sponge.  Wet and full of holes.

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wow

your mind is just like your logic. ha!
»

At least there's some logic

At least there's some logic to begin with...
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wha choo talkin bout foo?

I eat reason and crap logic.
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Fiber

Only a suggestion....passing that logic through your system must be rough on the ol....well nevermind.
»

Like Mr. Spock?Catholic

Like Mr. Spock?

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

»

Looking into my crystal ball...

Maybe I can do a little mind reading act myself.

Is it any coinsidence that I am now restricted from READING the comments threads in The Olympian, one working day after I posted on my own blog about an inappropriate post.  At the risk of being accused of blatantly promoting my own blog (which I possibly am), I suggest anyone interested read "The Comedy of Moderation" on my blog, linked below.  I purposefully did not post that blog on Olyblog as (a) I wanted to see who might be monitoring my blog and (b) I didn't want to offend anyone on Olyblog with content that had a sexual nature to it.

Those that are interested might read it and connect the dots.  Needless to say, I didn't click "Report this Comment" on the Olympian thread, because I know that my concerns are invalid to them.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

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For What It's Worth...

...I am always interested in Larry's struggle with the Olympian.

 

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